Kickstart an Ubuntu Version

What would it take to natively port Hitfilm over to Ubuntu? What if we reached a certain level of people interested? Is that in the wheelhouse for your wonderful product?

Comments

  • edited April 2016

    That sounds great, I used to be on Linux myself.

    IN the meantime, tried Wine or Crossover, or running a Virtual Machine, or dual boot your Linux box?

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    The most recent staff comment on Ubuntu is dated March 2015, and is on the last page of this thread. 

    https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/comment/61108/#Comment_61108

  • In my market scouting for VFX/compositing app I did find little Linux support, so I suppose the best for FXHome is to look at Natron situation and decide if there is a market opportunity. 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited April 2016

    Quoting @SimonKJones from the other linked thread:

    "It's going to be one of two things: either we'd have a massive advantage because we'd be the only consumer video/VFX software in the Linux market; or we'd discover the reason why there is no consumer video/VFX software in the Linux market (ie, there is no market).
    It's hard to say for sure without risking it for a biscuit, but right now the stats and general consensus doesn't point towards us being able to justify spending the resources on a Linux version.
    As I always say with regards to ANY platform - it's not that we have anything against the platform. In an ideal world we'd have our software available on ALL platforms. But we have to be realistic and go where the (paying) users are, which is why we started on Windows, then went to Mac a while later.
    It's something we're continually evaluating, but there are currently no Linux plans."

    Now, that's almost two years ago, but, unless the numbers in the Linux world have shifted greatly, this is likely still where FxHome still stands. 

    As a side note, at the moment the OS in most use across computing devices worldwide is Android, but I wouldn't count on an Android Hitfilm anytime soon--more because tablets and phones don't have the horsepower. 

  • As an aside (and since Natron was mentioned), is anyone aware that HitFilm Ignite indeed works on the Mac & Windows versions of Natron? Interesting.

  • Hi guys,

    I would equally be very interested in an official statement about the chances to get a Linux version anytime soon (may it Ubuntu) and may it even be higher priced then the win/mac version. I'm an avid user of Blender and have a small studio with 7 people where we are exclusively work with Linux. We're producing advertising clips and 3D matchmoving work as we go and use Nuke (as a node locked license) & Natron wherever possible.

    I would gladly sponsor a Linux version via Kickstarter and definitely buy the software for Linux - I think that you underestimate the amount of studios that switched to Linux or do the switch now and are perfectly fine with paying for Linux software (getting the job done is the key).

    So please consider a Linux version - we're counting on the underdog!

    Best regards,
    Thomas

  • Linus is less than 3% of the OS market.
    I'd rather see HF focus development that would benefit more users, like better performance with 4k videos, multi layer exr support.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited April 2016

    Usually I am the one saying Linux is only 3% of the PC market, but I point out that Mac is only 7% of the PC market. 

    So the real question is, what percentage of Linux users are videoeditors? 

  • edited May 2016

    @Triem23

    The thing you said about android wouldn't be a bad move. An application allowing to open, and preview Hitfilm files to show your friends or colleagues isn't a bad idea. Maybe, also, even as an editing application which can be opened later in Hitfilm? It wouldn't be a bad marketing idea

     EDIT: And in response to your question on how many of the 3% Linux users are editing or VFX users would likely be a decent amount. If you watch many behind the scenes videos from VFX companies, then you will notice that they actually have some Linux PCs. I have dualboot for Linux on my laptop, and blender has made the step of being on Linux, so... if we can have 7% macs which probably have 1% video editors (trust me, you guys may have macs, but with the amount of people I know who have macs. Literally only 1 out of 50 use it for video, and they only use it for a sloppy school project!). I feel like Linux is actually a pretty good marketing opportunity. As it would open up to more indie low budget filmmakers who didn't buy a windows or mac PC, but I may be wrong

  • I've supported this position in the other thread mentioned above. However I will reiterate here that I too would happily pay for (or support a kickstarter version of) Hitfilm and/or the Ignite plugins for Linux. With Adobe refusing to port their creative cloud suite to Linux; there is a definite market opportunity just waiting to be exploited for any product that can even partially emulate the capabilities of After Effects (such as HitFilm). The current tools available are either massively expensive (e.g. Nuke) or too editing focused/lacking in features to be taken seriously (e.g. OpenShot, Ptivi, KDEnlive). I honestly believe the first software developer brave enough to enter this space has the opportunity to capture the entire user base of video and motion professionals using Linux.

  • edited May 2016

    I can see validity in both arguments. As a fledgling animator and user of Ubuntu--on which I use Blender and Natron (trust me--when you're laying off hundreds of frames, a Linux system leaves Windows in the dust)--I would support and wholeheartedly relish a Linux version of HitFilm.

    Having said that, a LOT of users haven't seen the hard, underlying truth in Simon/FXHome's argument. They ARE a BUSINESS. Businesses by definition are created to serve a public need or want with the expectation of turning a PROFIT. This is NOT--by any means--a bad thing. But, to that end, the company has to look at the best ways to serve that need WHILE turning said profit. If it is not/doesn't appear to be profitable to create a version of HitFilm to run on Linux given that it has such a small percentage of the user base, then the company's full resources should not be expended in that direction.

     I can already hear people thinking this: "a small percentage of the user base," Apple is only 7-8% of the user base of overall PC users. How do you justify a Mac version, then? With two points: 1) Apple has won several technical achievement awards from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences; Mac may only be 7-8% of the market but included in that number are some pretty impressive customers in the business. 2) Most film/animation/graphic design schools' criteria (again, in the states) includes--or, at least, strongly suggests the purchase of a Mac as it can dual boot into Windows for the purpose of teaching 3D (here, a LOT of the courses on 3D are taught using 3D Max, which has NO Mac version). Therefore, a fair chunk of the Mac user base can be assumed to be professionals and the expenditure of corporate resources--supported by an initial Kickstarter campaign (which, by the way, was a great way to validate those numbers)--was legitimized in FXHome's eyes.

     Incidentally, @TheAbstract, Blender did not "make the step of being on Linux," it was originally developed for Linux and later ported to Windows, Mac, and other platforms. Triem23 is right; the real question IS "what percentage of Linux users are video editors?". @TheAbstract, you are correct, as well, about many of the top VFX companies running Linux environments. Many of them develop their own software to run in their private environments.

     For example, observe the following test scenario (I did this myself based on an online article I read on the differences of exporting frames from Blender on a PC running Windows as opposed to one running Linux):  I used Ubuntu 14.04 LTS and Windows 8.1 and used the exact same computer--which by specification was an i7-4700MQ quad-core with 8GB of RAM, GPU is irrelevant as Blender was run in CPU mode only. Parity was achieved by physically switching out the hard drives. According to the article, Blender lays off frames 20-30% slower in a Windows environment than it does in a comparative Linux one. This is, as stated in the article, caused by the way the different operating systems handle the data in the rendering process. As a result of my testing, I found this to be true. Which is--I would guess--why many VFX/Animation houses prefer to run Linux…this and the additional costs of overhead involved with maintaining a contract with Microsoft to fix/update/customize Windows for their use. I would argue that Linux is found to be cheaper, adaptable and faster for production use.

     @HitFilmer248305 makes a VERY good point: "I've supported this position in the other thread mentioned above. However I will reiterate here that I too would happily pay for (or support a kickstarter version of) Hitfilm and/or the Ignite plugins for Linux."

     On Windows, Natron currently has the ability to run Ignite--you have to tell it to "treat the plugins as Vegas" but it DOES work. Having seen this, I must confess that I, too, would happily pay for at least an Ignite plugin set for Linux...if it were offered.

     Would it be possible--just to "test the water"--for FXHome to create one or two Ignite plugins for Linux? For a profit, of course…financed on Kickstarter to validate that at least the numbers may (or may not) be there. If the goal is missed, the interest is not there. The user base, conversely, should realize that FXHome may not do this with a cheap price tag…at the end of the day, it has to be LITERALLY worth their while. There are other comparative packages on Linux. Fusion and Resolve immediately come to mind…and has no "lite" version for Linux. Prices for these on Linux start at $999.00.

     In conclusion, I offer that HitFilm's intended user base are independent filmmakers to whom FXHome offers, through the HitFilm product, the opportunity to edit and add visual FX to their endeavors without "breaking the bank." The dilemma comes about in personal preference; to keep their costs down--or maybe they like the low-cost aspect of open-source coupled with the solid performance of a good Linux distribution--an independent filmmaker/animator might WANT to use HitFilm on Linux. But--honestly--how much of HitFilm's user base is on Linux and are willing to PAY for a product for Linux?

     Just trying to get all sides of the question out there. Thank you for your time and patience.

  • @Pencilandinc

    You should send what you've just said to a Hitfilm staff member directly, if possible. It is an extrememly valid argument and you have a chance at bringing Hitfilm to even more people. In a way... you'll be the person who brought a great software to another great platform! Let's start a super cheesy campaign - #Hitfilm4Linux

  • Thanks @TheAbstract. If FXHome is inspired to movement based on my poor attempt at expression, then it's a good thing for some other users. But, I figure they're watching these boards, so maybe they've already read it. Only time will tell.

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator

    Part of the challenge of bringing HitFilm to Linux isn't even just the business case - it's how it impacts on other resources, too. If a substantial portion of the dev team focuses on making a Linux version, that essentially means that they're not working on the PC and Mac versions (this is an over-simplification, but you get the idea). The consequence is that while we might get a nice new Linux version, it'll mean that the core PC/Mac development grinds to a halt. We're not a large enough team that we could be making the Linux version while still maintaining development pace on the other versions.

    If we could make a Linux version to 'test the waters' without it impacting on the PC/Mac product then it might be a more viable thing, even just as a "see what happens" kind of risk. But that's not the case, so for now it comes down to the question of: do we develop new features for our established and enthusiastic PC and Mac users, or make a Linux version for a market that may or may not be interested?

  • @SimonKJones

    I understand the dilemma and it's nice to know that the staff do listen to the public opinion. With time, and maybe more employment over at hitfilm, you could "test the waters", but your point is completely valid. With time mabey you could bring Linux to the menu for the other indie filmmakers around the world

  • @SimonKJones I understand it as well and thank you for your honest words. Leading a company, I know that we all have to take risks and uncertainties to progress further - sometimes we fail even if we planned it very well, sometimes it pays off. I really hope that you can grow your team to make porting possible - I'm sure the first effectcreator-compositor-nle on Linux will catch a whole lot if not all of the market.

    Be sure that there are many more studios like us - and be aware that Android is one step away from becoming a desktop OS.

    Best regards, Thomas

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator

    It's something that is constantly being re-assessed. If a situation arises where it becomes a possible thing - whether that's due to a change in the Linux market, or our end, or a bit of both - you can be sure we'll get right on it. :) But for now, alas, there are no Linux plans.

    That said, if you're a Linux user do keep letting us know, because understanding the interest is a big part of it.

  • Hi there :)

    I'd be also really interested in a Linux version of Hitfilm. I've been working for quite a time on After Effect but I hate to rent a software! Plus, I dropped Mac because:
    -The Mac are awfully expensive and not that powerful
    -The hardware is closed

    I tried to go on Windows 10, but that's just an environment which is not compatible with post-production (fragmentation, virus,...)

    So, I'm changing my whole workflow on linux (using Fusion 8, Lightworks). Fusion is really great for VFX, but sometimes After Effects is more appropriate because you can do VFX and motion-design. So Hitfilm on Linux would be a blessing! I'm trying the Express version, and so far, I had no problem for transitionning to it from AE.

    So, Hitfilm Staff, your software is great, please listen to the Linux community. A lot of post-production companies use Linux.

    Thanks Guys!

  • "That said, if you're a Linux user do keep letting us know, because understanding the interest is a big part of it."

    I am a Linux user as well and the only reason I keep a 2nd desktop Windows-PC around (I dont like dual boot) is Hitfilm. I abandoned all Adobe products due to their subscription business model (even for raw picture development, I switched from Lightroom to darktable/rawtherapee). I would highly appreciate a Linux version of Hitfilm and would also pay for it.

     

     

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