The Xbox One Thread

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Comments

  • Yeah. It's a typical case of a corporation pushing consumers to see how much crap they'll tolerate. If there hadn't been an outcry they'd have carried on and gradually ramped it up. Because of the reaction they'll now retreat and try it again another day, or via another route.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator
    edited August 2013
    In the latest facepalming exercise by Microsoft, they've detailed a system for rating other players:
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-01-xbox-ones-new-reputation-system-has-been-detailed
    While tackling unpleasantness in online games is a worth cause, this sounds like a system that could go horribly wrong very easily. It's also continuing the odd messaging from Microsoft - talking about this system inevitably makes it sound like most of your customers/players are unpleasant, which is a really bizarre signal to send out.
  • Hmm, while I agree it's an odd message, I like this a lot. Online gaming is teeming with douches of various kinds, and it's nice to see M$ making a proper effort to tackle this, as well as acknowledging that it's a problem. If the algorithm has been well designed, and is improved over time, it seems like a very positive thing to me.
  • Hmm, while I agree it's an odd message, I like this a lot. Online gaming is teeming with douches of various kinds, and it's nice to see M$ making a proper effort to tackle this, as well as acknowledging that it's a problem. If the algorithm has been well designed, and is improved over time, it seems like a very positive thing to me.


    M$ have always been active when it comes to grief reporting. So much so, that Sony implemented their own system for reporting such grievances with a system update. It's nowhere near as sophisticated as the M$ system, but was a welcome addition.
    Neither system stops people being douches online though, it always happens. But like Dan has said, I see this as a positive move & a step in the right direction. 

  • Perhaps - it just seems like an odd feature to focus on at this point, given all the negative publicity they've had so far.
    "Hey, you know how you've all had a lot of issues with our policies and privacy and pricing? Well here's the other thing - we think all our customers are douches!"
    That's kinda how it comes across. :P
  • @Simon they were working on this system and announced it at the beginning.  The details to the mute and block thing are new and I think dumb because often i'll just mute people when playing massive team slayer on halo and I really do not care to hear people.  They broke down that you will be in 1 of 3 categories eventually... So D bags will wind up talking to just themselves.
  • So what do you think about the new NEW news about reporting other players?
    http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/7/4581044/xbox-enforcement-united-program
  • Lol Live PD...
  • As long as it isn't abused, as I assume it will be, then I think it could be a fine idea. However, are there enough responsible players who really want to bother with that kind of extra responsibility?
  • No, I'm afraid the Xbox One will not function without the Kinect, and I can't see them changing their whole business model & indeed console design just to get the price down.
    This feels awfully similar to the PS3 launch when people questioned the inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive & the PS3's high price.
    Xbox One won't work without Kinect

     


     


    Yeah, the Kinect is directly integrated into just about everything the Xbox does. It's not an optional peripheral like the PS Camera thing.
    Ady - I don't recall that debate, interesting. The blu-ray player was the main reason I bought a PS3. :P


    As predicted... to cut costs and stay competitive with Sony Microsoft has announced that the console will no longer require Kinect.  Wait for the Kinect free SKU to pop up.  It the war of consoles... Everything is fair game. 

  • edited August 2013
    By launch this thing will be free of charge, and Microsoft will pay your electric bill for a month.
  • Lol they could do a free system where you pay for features to use... or a monthly subscription ;)
  • Console-development Microsoft-style: “Spend years building a console nobody wants. Rebuild the whole thing a few months before launch so as to not be crushed by Sony.”
    I'm sure there will absolutely no technical issues with the Xbone at launch!
  • Lol we can tell which side of the spectrum you fall...  They spent years building a console virtually identical to Sony's.  You really think there will be absolutely no technical issues with the ps4?  Both of these consoles are being rushed out of the door same year they are announced.  
  • To add to the discussion MichaelJames I am more in agreement with Simon K Jones on this one. The only thing I have a problem with the Xbone is that they tried to force policies that gave corporations way more power over the consumers than they should have (in a somewhat Orwellian way). In fact I think competition between the consoles, as all competition, is good for the consumer because it is exactly what protects us from this sort of thing.
    However I also have a big problem with the console business model (that pertains to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo) specifically about game exclusivity and no backward compatibility. Games have been made that are great, profound and artistic experiences. But they can never exist as works of art in the way a book or a film does because they can't be preserved and made available to the public in the foreseeable future by re-printing them or re-releasing them on Blu-ray because they will be tied to a game system that is no longer being built. How are we supposed to play The Last of Us (which is one of the greatest gaming experiences I have ever had) when the last PS3 breaks in 20-100 years? It might sound hyperbolic and video-games still age faster and worse than films, now that film-technicals have reached a level where technological advancement gives less and less noticeable improvement whereas video-games still have a ton of ways to grow technically before the only innovation will be in the ideas.

    (I find it really interesting that in my short lifespan Hollywood blockbusters have gone from the insane “event” feeling that preceded The Lord of the Rings and The Phantom Menace to under-performing like Pacific Rim and John Carter. Bigger budgets and better VFX don’t impress regular people any more. They started using computers seriously to reach levels never before imagined in the 90s and 2000s and now there can never be another “Star Wars”-moment. We have seen startlingly photoreal images of anything the mind can imagine in film.)

    When video-games get there as film has and they can no longer interest us with the newer graphic cards, and better processors that allows for more life-like AI and more crowded streets in Assassin's Creed, then things will become interesting. However games can't “grow up”, to me, until they start existing as works of art that belong to the public when released like films and books, instead of perks you get when buying a completely different product.

    I'm hoping that now with this generation where the Xbone and PS4 both have the internal structure of a computer, that porting to both consoles and PC will be so easy that exclusivity will start dying out slowly as less and less developers will want to give up a chance to sell to all platforms when it's so cheap/easy to make a good cross platform game. We might have Uncharted, and Halo for now, but hopefully almost everything else will get a PC release.
    (And I for one might buy a PS4 when the next Naughty Dog game launches. We will see.)
  • @TheDoctor
    But it turns out more people want the features and the polices that they were trying to force.
    The console business model may have its detractors but people always forget the simple concepts which are at the core.  First when it comes to exclusivity.  That's important and is becoming the single differentiating factor between Sony and Microsoft.  We are getting to the point where hardware doesn't matter and people are spitting out virtually identical systems.  If Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all made similar spec'ed systems next go around which would you buy if there were very few exclusives and all the systems allowed interplay between each other?  It wouldn't matter... 
    As a long time PC user whose had one in their house since 89 (and im only born in 85) there has always existed exclusives  between the 2 different that just made it very unfair to be a Mac user 99.9% of the time.  When you go shopping stores will have some of the same items but then have brand exclusives which if you like can only be found at that store.  Theres no reason to make video game consoles if there is no exclusives which you can snag to drive your business.  Do you know how many times Xbox live has gotten exclusive content for games which made getting that game for a 360 a must?  Microsoft's sales of the 360 started a major uptick way before the ps3 thanks to exclusives. 

    Backwards compatibility is another thing people just expect randomly all of a sudden.  So you buy software built specifically for a device and you are mad that 10 years later you can't play it on a new device with different internals?  PC's have figured out a way to let you start emulating the most recent previous versions of their software but if it does not work well it is what it is.  Im not going to come back to FXhome when Microsoft's future Windows Implant does not allow for me to use Hitfilm 1 and say make it work.
    There was a time where if you wanted to play your old games from 20 years ago you busted out the old system that you kept and hooked it up.  If you needed to get it repaired you'd find a specialty shop that focuses on old video games systems and are trained to repair it.  Theres a store near me called Luna Video Games.  I can go there and get any system people sold to them from early Atari that they will fix and test.
    To make the software backwards compatible takes time and money which could be used to save costs  Nintendo is even doing something which is nice... If you bought something digitally through their online system when they do port it over to the new system you can get it for 30 cents or a dollar.
    I can see you're business moves plans would push video games consoles to an end.  Developers won't stop doing exclusives because they get paid for it.  Instead of doing a game that may not sale and lead to the studio closing.  Look at all the studios which have closed this console generation.  If you want diversity and interesting games you need exclusives... if you want ports and sequels to be the only thing dominating the market place let exclusivities die out. No guaranteed money stops development of new IPs.  Look at how exclusives happen.  Consoles Developers offer to pay for a lesser property that's being developed by a studio to pick up the major property.  Nintendo picked up The Wonderful 101 and got Bayonetta 2 as an exclusive.  Certain games only happen thanks to exclusives.
  • Yeah, I think you're right. 
    It is a business and it only works in such a way. I might write a longer response later, but good points there! 
  • Theres no reason to buy any android powered game system that gets released.  Not the Ouya and not the Amazon one(if they are making it) if you just need to wait till the cheapest one released.  Also, I mean if I can play the games on my tablet and phone... do I need to spend $200?  Or Nvidia's project shield?
  • Anyone keeping a tally of how many times Microsoft makes a huge policy change to the Xbox One?  They're copying Sony again and now allowing Indie Developers to self publish their games.
    Don't get me wrong, this is great news for gamers.  It's just shitty comunication.
    (Full Disclosure: I'm a happy Xbox 360 Owner)
  • Would you rather have a company only care to do their own thing? or would you prefer them to listen to you?  Can't get mad that they listened.  Sony did not listen with the ps3 and suffered much through that systems life because of it.  It was not developer friendly.  The 600 dollar price, the phasing in and out of backwards compatibility, the major server issues and not wrangling exclusive dlc content initially kept the ps3 from performing better. it was not consumer friendly.  The PS3 has a about face again on motion control.  Remember the original boomerang controller that was suppose to come with the ps3(after Nintendo announced the wii mote?)  Then they came out with the move which is big rip off of Nintendo's motion control system.
    So everyone has big policy shifts... at least Microsoft is in it for the money and listening early.  You know why im more likely to get a xbox one?  Im already way more invested in Xbox's online services and accounts.
  • I want to disagree with you, except that you're right. 
    Except about the investment in their online services and accounts.  All that investment ends with the 360.  None of our downloaded games, DLC, Arcade Titles, and Avatar trinkets transfer to the Xbox One. Just our Gold membership, MS points money and gamerscore.  I'm not upset about that and I understand why, but it makes jumping ship to the PS4 easier since we're leaving all our baggage behind.
    (I loved the boomerang controller when I first saw it.  It screamed "Next Gen".)
  • Yeah, not having continuity from one console to the next is a bad move in terms of retaining users. I understand the technical complications of making it happen but, as Perfectance indicates, if all your content carried over to the new console you'd pretty much guarantee retention of customers.
    The problem with Microsoft's multiple 180s is that none of it feels like they actually want to do it, in terms of company direction/culture/etc. They're doing it because of backlash and damage limitation. The 180s are good, sure, but without a corporate culture to actually uphold these new policies, we'll just see them gradually, slowly be eroded back to the original positions over the next 5-10 years. It doesn't feel like Microsoft want to make these policy changes, so I therefore have no faith in them sticking by them.
    Combined with their abysmal handling of the Windows platform, I think 2013 will be looked back on as Microsoft's doom year. Unless Ballmer leaving injects some actual vision, of course.
    Essentially, if Valve can crack gaming on Linux (not quite sure how), they'll be no decent reason for me to keep using Microsoft products outside of work.
  • You can look at these changes of heart as a good move all you like, but if there was no competition they wouldn't have changed anything no matter how much we cried out about it.  They've changed their policies to get more purchases, not because fans/consumers asked them to.  If pre-orders weren't so one sided out of the gate I doubt they'd have changed anything at all, regardless.
    It stuns me to see the defensiveness of MS and their console now that they've changed everything, and what on earth is to stop them re-implementing anything in a years time?  How they're coming out of this looking like the good guys to some people baffles me.
    To be honest I've owned each PS console along the way and have pre-ordered they 4th one, but do own a 360.  Over the last several years I've probably played 80% of the time on the PS3, and along with the line up of games PS4 has at launch or close by I made my decision on that.  Had I never owned a console up to this point, I wouldn't go anywhere near the XB1 for the time being.
    It speaks volumes of their stupidity with this system though if you enquire in store on pre-orders.  We've missed out on a guarantee on a launch system but are due to get one in time for Christmas, however they still have plenty of XB1 ready to go on launch day.  Maybe the general public are more up on gaming news than I give them credit for.
  • @Nutty I don't think they did it out of the goodness of their heart.  I've admitted they love money.  Preorders does not mean sustained sales... especially for consoles.  typicaly gamestop preorder.... put $50 dollars down to reserve a day one system... then start making payments so that over the course of 3-4 months you've paid it off.  There is the well informed gamer/internet reader who knows about the systems and preordered them but does that mean long term success?  Let me take you back to the Xbox 360 launch... hard to find for 4-5 months?  High failure rate and a very meh line up.  Then the sales were very meh for a long time. 1 million by the end of the launch year(great) by May of 2008 it was 10 million not stellar compared to other consoles.  Wii U is considered a flop and it pushed 3.5 million in under a year.   if the 360 pushed 10 in 3 years... then the Wii U is on pace to exceed that.
  • Would you rather have a company only care to do their own thing? or would you prefer them to listen to you?  Can't get mad that they listened.  Sony did not listen with the ps3 and suffered much through that systems life because of it.  It was not developer friendly.  The 600 dollar price, the phasing in and out of backwards compatibility, the major server issues and not wrangling exclusive dlc content initially kept the ps3 from performing better. it was not consumer friendly.  The PS3 has a about face again on motion control.  Remember the original boomerang controller that was suppose to come with the ps3(after Nintendo announced the wii mote?)  Then they came out with the move which is big rip off of Nintendo's motion control system.
    So everyone has big policy shifts... at least Microsoft is in it for the money and listening early.  You know why im more likely to get a xbox one?  Im already way more invested in Xbox's online services and accounts.


    You really don't like Sony do you?  :P 
    Sorry, but the Wii Motion Control is a 'rip off' of the Playstation Eye & the Dreamcast Fishing Rod, both were released way before the Wii was around. It's just combing two technologies and making them better! Rip off? Maybe? But better? Yes!
    It's how it goes, good ideas continue to get improved upon, without this consoles just wouldn't progress. The technology & the ideas keep evolving, we've gone from the little Playstation Eye to the Kinect, which is a wonderful piece of technology, to refer to it as a 'rip off' is not doing it justice. 
    I'm pro gaming, I don't care which platform something great happens, so long as it does happen.
     

  • @MichaelJames I think today more than back when the X360 was launched YES pre-orders do matter.  The one big reason is the online/social aspect of it which is much much more prominent than it was in 2005. If your friends all buy a PS4 then surely your decision is going to sway that way unless there's a strong reason otherwise, besides straight up fanboy-ism. PS4 has also supposedly sold over 1 million units already this far ahead of launch, although it appears XB1 is picking up some ground after the changes made.
    Everyone I know who plays online are on X360 so I've rarely gamed online with them which has always bugged me, however each of them are picking up a PS4 this time around which works out for me as my decision was already made. I imagine friend purchases are playing a big part this time around so those pre-orders are going to be a big deal.
  • That's a very interesting point. It's very difficult to judge the real impact of internet news and social media - for example, how widely known are all of Xbone's marketing woes? We're all discussing it, the whole internet seems to be discussing it...but what percentage of Xbox users and buyers does that involve? The goldfish bowl effect can make judging this kind of thing very difficult.
    It's slightly mind-boggling to think that the Xbox 360 launched in the same year as YouTube.
    Shows just how much internet, culture and social stuff has changed over the years. Gaming and marketing are very different beasts these days.
  • edited August 2013
    You really don't like Sony do you?  :P 
    Sorry, but the Wii Motion Control is a 'rip off' of the Playstation Eye & the Dreamcast Fishing Rod, both were released way before the Wii was around. It's just combing two technologies and making them better! Rip off? Maybe? But better? Yes!
    It's how it goes, good ideas continue to get improved upon, without this consoles just wouldn't progress. The technology & the ideas keep evolving, we've gone from the little Playstation Eye to the Kinect, which is a wonderful piece of technology, to refer to it as a 'rip off' is not doing it justice. 
    I'm pro gaming, I don't care which platform something great happens, so long as it does happen.

     


    I own a ps3... I own all the consoles.  Lol we can get into a who stole what from who but you need to be willing to dig back and go to the Power Glove.  Advancements are fine and happen... That's why Nintendo is not suing everyone for everything... Nintendo would prefer to settle this on the console field ;)
    @NuttyBanana
    preorders for software is different then console preorders.  I stood in a line 200 deep to get a Wii U deluxe on launch day.  That system was also sold out of preorders... so clearly consoles are different then games.  if all your friends own buy a new masaratti does that really matter to you?  Unlike preordering a game... there is away bigger investment to get a system and that's where the fall off always happens. 
    For any system that you buy you have to consider the total numbers when it comes to investing in it.  "So I spent 400 on a system.. I spent 60 on 1 game... I spent 60 on what should be an extra controller... Are there any other accessories or games I should pick up now? No I wanna save money but that other game looks good so i'll get that too "
    Its easier to have a sustained sales on 60 dollar software then a major purchase.  Also, preorder does not mean you'll get it day 1... or in the first batch.  See demand exceeding supply.
  • edited August 2013
    I don't see how motorbikes relate as you can ride on the same road. I also don't think most people consider the WiiU in the same boat as the other 2 and it's normally a case of owning that plus 1 of the others. I've always seen Wii/WiiU as a living room multiplayer system rather than online as well. If you're going to buy one of the new systems and all of your friends are on either the ps4 or Xbox 1, then that's going to count towards the final vote for most gamers. I'm not specifically pointing out you or me, but I think it matters among the masses. Can you bear to feel the heartbreak of the kid at school who's friends are all clanned up on the other console?! Lol. It's a different world to 2005, and while many will at some point own both system I'm sure, this starting point is a big deal this gen, and I'm not expecting next gen to last as long this time round.
  • @NuttyBanana... I was referencing high end sports cars... and it relates because just because some people can buy something doesn't mean you... or everyone else would buy the same thing.  In 2005 $500-600 dollars was too much to spend on a video game console for most.  Did that suddenly change 8 years later is a great question.  Yea  05 was different.  2013 the US economy while improving has left lots of people jobless and actually no longer counted in unemployment.... because its based on people actively looking for job.

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