video with alpha layer

Has a video with alpha layers and wants to transfer from Hitfilm 6.2 to Sony Vegas 15. The video is in HD and about 40 minutes. The only option that worked for me was uncompressed with alpha but then the file 1 TB becomes big.

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  • Choose Cineform RGB with Alpha (RGBA) for export. Then choose Medium, High or Filmscan1 for the output bitrate. The predefined Cineform RGBA template uses filmscan1.

  • Unfortunately, I only get the audio file when I load the Cineform RGBA medium, the mov format and if I choose the avi format, it does not work at all.

  • Vegas 15 apparently still needs the Cineform codecs installed. I know Vegas 14 needs this. Vegas does use the Cineform SDK for native Cineform access but it has done so remotely, so to speak. This due to that Vegas has supported the SDK during the time Cineform was still a for sale product.

    If you just want to decode in Vegas then you can install the free GoPro/Cineform decoders.

    http://cineform.com/gopro-cineform-decoder

    If you want to also encode, then you need an older version of GoPro Quik installed. Quik version 2.3 to be exact. You don't need the software apps but the install does install the full Cineform decode/encode codecs.  2.3 exists on some sites and here is one. Below the description for the current Quik version is a link to Quik 2.3.

    https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6946-gopro-quik.html

     

  • you can go with  .png  image  sequence render out of Hitfilm . Vegas loves  huge  image sequences of  .png .  Tons of  images in a single folder , Vegas should have No isssue with that .

    I was just  looking at the  openEXR  , that is  128 bit  video ,... 32 bit per channel Times  4 ,  Too bad it is an  image sequence  with  imgages tagged as  .exr   Vegas doen't seem to be able to recognize  .exr  images .

    for  29.97 fps , i need to set  Vegas to  .033  duration for image import setting ,  in   Options-->Preferences ,...aka  1  image  per  frame .

  • edited February 3

    i was just in  Vegas Pro  14 , and  it just  imported an  .exr  128  bit image . these  .exr  were  renderout out of  HItFilm .

    i don't remember seeing the  .exr  extension anywhere in Vegas , but it just worked .  So if you want  MAX  quality going into Vegas , then use the  Default  Exr  to render with .

    HitFim's  .pdf manual  says to use  openEXR  when needing to move video out of  Hitfilm to other platforms , for further processing  , as  openEXR will give the best possible  render  integrity\duplication of the original footage .

    in Vegas , be sure to  use  32 bit float per channel ,aka  128 bit . in   menu  Files-->Properties-->Video Tab and keep  "View Transform" set to  OFF ,  in  Vegas  Video Tab .

  • Thanks so much for your help!!
    Tried to install GoPro / Cineform decoder and after this I can take cineform movies with alpha layers to Sony Vegas 15 without any problems. OpenEXR movies do not allow me to load into Sony Vegas 15 and png movies are very jerky.

  • Cineform Alpha should be the best recommended method to go with. Yes, the compression is lossy but it would be a serious technical challenge to actually see anything ever.

    If you go EXR I would probably stick with 'from source' for EXR or 16-bit float. 16-bit float has 10-bits of significance and 40 stops of range.  16-bit float is a really capable format and EXR was designed around it AFAIK.

    PNG image sequence exports from Hitfilm are painfully slow unless you change the compression setting. PNG compression is always lossless. The setting is just about how much analysis is done to look for the best possible compression keys.

     

  • @NormanPCN out of curiosity, what do you set your compression setting to for PNG export?

    We did some tests to have a good default but that was a while ago (IIRC during HF 5 development). If you click the "use source" checkbox, it will let the encoder figure out a per frame compression setting, which creates smaller files but takes more time to save each of them.

  • edited February 6

    @CedricBonnier A setting of 80% gives a speed near that of Vegas 14 PNG export. Same media 1080p30, no effects, no nothin. The default 20% is 4.5x slower than 80% in Hitfilm 6.2 and 6x slower than Vegas.

    The 80% files are 8.5% bigger (single 10s test case I just ran, high frequency data). A small price to pay for 4.5x faster. That 8.5% will increase decode overhead which may or may not be a problem depending on installation.

    I always wondered what the heck "use source" could possibly mean WRT PNG. Thanks for that tidbit.

    Honestly the default compression setting is unusably slow. A 10 second render of 1080p30 nothin media taking over 4 minutes on a 4Ghz CPU is hard to swallow. To each his/her own.

    I believe the documentation is still wrong on PNG compression. I'll tag @AxelWilkinson again on this. PNG compression is always lossless AFAIK so the DOCs stating that image quality changes with compression setting is I believe incorrect. I don't think it's good to potentially scare people away from faster function. Not that many read the DOCs.

  • @NormanPCN thanks, it's been a long time since I looked at this but from what I can remember, there was two different settings for JPEG and PNG, one being the compression and the other one being quality, one being the "reverse" of the other. Maybe the default of the two got mixed together.

    I'll have a look tomorrow and update the defaults.

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