(spoilers galore) Star Wars Force Awakens: Seen it discussion

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  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Luke made it, Luke split it, Luke gave R2 part of it. Presumably because of some prophetic vision Luke had--or at Obi-Wan's suggestion. 

  • Yes, it seems as the only reasonable explanation. Maybe will be explained in more details in the next movie :)

    Meanwhile, looking forward to the ESB during the weekend, most favourite part from the old trilogy.

  • To return to one of the first 'concerns' in the very first trailer for this.

    Do you all remember the internet reaction to the 'cross-guard' lightsabre? How it looked stupid and wouldn't block anything? And you could just cut yourself? (I agree with all those things!)

    I also remember JJ saying the cross-guard bits have a cool purpose, you will have to see the movie to fine out! At the time I remember thinking, he just means someone will get stabbed while clashing with the blades... Yep, that was it.

    That one shot, in one part of one fight, does not a make up for the cross-guard being a 'Darwin Award' in waiting! Especially with Ren being a 'flipping his lid' type of kid. 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Yeah, still not a fan of the crossguard. 

    While I enjoyed Force Awakens, I do think Simon called it when he said Star Wars is now going on forever. ANH and TPM were stand-alone films telling self-contained stories with references to a larger universe to whet the appetite. TFA is obviously an episode. So much of TFA is setup for the next film, it kind of hurts it as a standalone film. At its cire, TFA's plot is "Where's Luke? Here's Luke! Tune in next time for Luke!" Everything else just happened. 

    Still wanna see what's up with Luke. 

  • I don't think that's inherently a problem - Empire Strikes Back is DEFINITELY 'just an episode' rather than a singular story. It's also my favourite of the lot.

    The issue is that if it is an on-going forever franchise, like the Marvel stuff, it means there can't be an ending. And for a fairy tale/morality tale type story like Star Wars, that kinda breaks it. Or, at least, turns it into something completely different. It's why the prequels didn't inherently alter the originals, they just added some (flimsy) depth to the history. But it still had a definite ending.

    It doesn't matter with the Marvel films because they are inherently based on on-going comic sources, and that's supposed to be a living universe in which Stuff Happens continuously. Star Wars was always defined as having an 'end point' (EU not withstanding).

    I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing - it's just fundamentally changed.

  • edited January 2016

    I didn't read all the way through this thread yet but I will backtrack when I get a little more time.

     Alright, saw it for the first time Sunday and took some time to soak in what I saw. Going to see it again as soon as my mom feels up to it.

    I think Kylo Ren is already worse than his grandfather in many respects and seems to struggle internally with the whole good vs. evil conflict just like Anakin. Killing his own father proves to me he is merciless and his tantrums show he can't be trusted. Can he be redeemed? Maybe. Given name Ben- two thumbs up.

    The First Order appears to be far more deadly and aggressive than the Empire. Interesting they feel the need to brainwash their minions. Don't know who the leader could possibly be. Grandson of Palpatine? Doubtful.

    If I'm mistaken correct me- the logical conclusion at this point is that Rey is Luke's daughter. Didn't Maz Kanada say the light sabre Rey flashed on was her grandfathers, her fathers and now it calls to her? If Rey IS Luke's daughter we don't know what happened yet to separate them, we only had a flash to work with, where's mom and did Luke see Rey coming to his rescue? a la seeing the future in Empire. IF Rey is Luke's daughter then Han apparently never knew but does Leia? If Rey is NOT Luke's daughter then I just wasted our time writing this. ;^)

    I like BB8. Jar-Jar has been redeemed and should be dead by now, right? How long do Gungans live anyway? Me-sah not so sure. I did missed R2 and 3POs interaction. They reminded me of a Laurel and Hardy or Abbott and Costello type duo. I liked the way Finn realized what was going on around him and just couldn't bring himself to follow suit. I really liked how Rey returned to the crashed Star Destroyer while flying the Falcon. She knew the ship- good place to go and shows skill and cunning....perhaps just like dear old dad.

    As far as production goes- three thumbs up. Spectacular effects, a good sense of realism (CG not overdone) and as always a solid score.

    Over all I'd give this a 9 out of 10. The only reason it gets 9 is because like some of you, I agree, the music could have been louder. I did enjoy hearing some of the old themes come back......especially when they show the Falcon for the first time.

    So BB8 to Finn: Thumbs up realizing he was forging a friendship or droid attitude and flipping Finn the traitor and liar off? You decide.

    @Triem23 - So without a big, bad planet destroying weapon how would the First Order keep the local systems in line? To quote Tarkin,"Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this Battle station." I always thought it was kind of neat that the Empire built another Death Star. Unlike Wiley Coyote who tries something once and moves on never giving a good plan a second chance. lol

     

     

  • Although as Leia says, the more he tightens his grip the more systems slip through his fingers. ;)

    I actually think massively destructive things like Death Stars, and especially the new Star Killer which doesn't even need to be in the vicinity, are more likely to provoke revolution and dissent than subdue a population. A mega-weapon during a time of war between nation states (or galactic equivalements) is one thing (eg a nuclear weapon) but using such things against a general population is only ever going to lead to radicalisation.

    Talking of which, this is worth a read: http://decider.com/2015/12/11/the-radicalization-of-luke-skywalker-a-jedis-path-to-jihad/

    Silly and thought-provoking at the same time. Having rewatched some of Jedi recently since reading that article, the total destruction of Jabba's sail barge along with everyone on it (including slaves) does seem INCREDIBLY extreme and blasé

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    The problem with a Planet Killer is waste of resources. It's a short-sighted, limited use weapon. Better to just blow a chunk of a seabed, create a nuclear winter and kill the environment. Maybe take out cities and spaceports. Let 'em suffer. Plus, later, we can strip resources from the dead world. Make it a prison planet mine. 

    Did...did Starkiller actually have energy reserves to jump through Hyperspace to another system for a recharge, or was it about to become the most expensive paperweight in the Universe? 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited January 2016

    @SimonKJones the Empire is certainly environmentally sensitive. It would have been a lot easier to raze forest and build a big evercrete landling field on Endor, rather than harmoniously blend with the forest.  Not to mention not clearing the immediate area of the hostile, man-eating indigenous lifeform... You think those log traps were set up in proximity to that bunker overnight? The Ewoks obviously planned for a long time... Fortunately for them, dupes with guns came to help, but, from their handling of Speederbikes and AT-STs, those fuzzy killers had much intel. Ewoks are evil and brilliant. 

     Oh, yeah, Luke motivates the Ewoks by manipulation of religion... 

  • I only have one reply to those two articles:

    Ben Kenobi- Return of the Jedi-

    "Luke, Simon, T23, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

    That's right, Lucas changed it again to include you guys! lol

    Wasn't the point of what happened to Jabba and his minions one of kill or be killed? I don't think we know enough to say there were actually any completely "innocent" people/aliens on board the skiff. Everyone in Jabba's palace appeared to enjoy watching the Rancor munch on folks so I always thought they collectively reaped exactly what they sowed. Death.

    "A mega-weapon during a time of war between nation states (or galactic equivalements) is one thing (eg a nuclear weapon) but using such things against a general population is only ever going to lead to radicalization."

    Nuclear annihilation certainly didn't work for Skynet entirely. It only brought about a resistance.

    "It would have been a lot easier to raze forest and build a big evercrete landing field on Endor, rather than harmoniously blend with the forest."

    And yet the Empire was willing to destroy an entire planet and would have destroyed more, no doubt, if given the reason and/or chance. Hmmmmm. Not sure I concur. Planetary removal would also screw up  gravitational forces amongst planets in the system causing radical changes in their orbits and ecosystems. I don't think that would be very environmentally friendly.

     

  • The Empire's original battle station and Outer Rim Governor Tarkin were all about an imperial show of force to demonstrate that the Empire could protect peace loving members from radicalized terrorists. Eliminating Alderaan was a display of force that also eliminated training grounds, terrorist leaders and major sources of financial backing. 

    "Wasn't the point of what happened to Jabba and his minions one of kill or be killed? I don't think we know enough to say there were actually any completely "innocent" people/aliens on board the skiff. Everyone in Jabba's palace appeared to enjoy watching the Rancor munch on folks so I always thought they collectively reaped exactly what they sowed. Death."

    Many of those killed were innocents enslaved by Jabba, just as Leia was. It's clear she only cared about her own skin and terrorist compatriots.

    Now being realistic - Any planet killer is a waste of resources. One gaping hole in Star Wars armaments is that there isn't anything between artillery/naval sized blasters and a Death Star. Three Star Destroyers with the right payload could carry out a kinetic orbital bombardment of a planet rendering it uninhabitable in short order. Equally effective, far more maneuverable at sub-light speeds and orders of magnitude cheaper.

    The new doomsday weapon was equally misguided and on top of that makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever even as a concept.

    Weapons Contractor - "Hey we have a great idea for weapon for you! It takes an entire star to power it but the destructive potential is enormous"

    First Order Procurement Officer - "If it takes that kind of power how do you generate it?"

    Weapons Contractor - "Oh we don't have to generate anything we just suck a whole star. Easy peasy!"

    First Order Procurement Officer - "Uhhhh isn't sucking a whole star out of existence a weapon all by itself? I mean if you're converting that to usable energy couldn't we do something else with it instead like supply all the power needs for planet?"

    Weapons Contractor - "Oh no unless you fire it off as a weapon the star might come back."

     

     

  • edited January 2016

    I for one will not fall prey to the politically correct rewrite of Star Wars. Sorry. Darth Vader was evil until his redemption. The emperor was an evil conniving little back stabbing b*tch. Luke and the rebels were freedom fighters not terrorists. That's how I will always look at it. Jabba was a no good, dirt munching low life and proof is that he even took slaves. If I were a slave I'd rather be dead than serving that hunk of grotesque lumpen flesh. Good becoming bad and bad becoming good is a sad state we find ourselves in real life..i.e. "The Making of a Murderer"...and I'm tired of getting this terrorist sympathizer crap from our idiotic president; and upon further reflection, the article T23 posted is strangely similar to John Kerry's stupid reasoning that the attack on Charlie Hebdo was justifiable.

    In case you missed it- here's the most unintelligent, convoluted take on Star Wars I've ever heard:

    https://youtu.be/VDFnrNtqAjo

    Hopefully you all went-

     

  • I apologize if the above seems harsh in any way. I was under some pressure working on a video with the deadline fast approaching at the time. Finally got it done after some last second changes the director wanted and it just happens to be a Star Wars parody......it's kind of stupid but it was fun to work on 'til the last few days.

    Going to see SW VII again tomorrow with my mom. Hope she doesn't cry when Han gets it. She won't be happy, that's for certain.

  • Stormy, my dad flew in so that we could watch it together (Star Wars is a bit of a family tradition - we've seen them all together in the theater going back to the original) and that was his first comment when it was over.

    "Great movie... but they didn't have to kill off Han!"

  • Its ok. Not worth watching again anytime soon for me. There's just no part in it that's worth watching again. No good battlescene, no good fight scene, etc. Music is bland and uninsipiring.
    The moment Kylo Ren took off his mask, people laughed in the theater. Is that the face of a villain or a geek in a costume?

    LOTR has replaced SW as my favorite series.

  • @chibi

    Maybe that's the real reason that Kylo Ren turned to the dark side ;)

  • edited February 2016

    @SteveKarstensen - Cool you got that family tradition! My dad is not a sci-fi fan by any stretch of the imagination but my mom and I have seen all the SW movies together. Then I go a second time with friends and sometimes a third time by myself just because I didn't get a complete fix. lol Like your dad- the first thing my mom said was "They killed off Han!" She didn't cry like I expected but I found myself tearing up a little the second time. What's up with that?!?!?! At least she liked it though.

    @chibi - The actor playing Kylo was a strange choice. I don't even think he looked anything similar to Han or Leia. There's been a couple movies lately that I didn't like the actor choice i.e. the guy who played John Connor in Terminator Genesys just didn't look like the rough and tumble guy we've seen previously or even in the TV show. The outrageous scar didn't impress me either. Maybe he looked too much like Chief O'Brien (?). Kylo struck me that way too- just not the rough and tumble look for a bad guy. As to the action, Jedi had three plot lines going on and was chocked full of action. I didn't expect that in VII. It is, after all, the first leg in a three part story arc.

    I disagree with the music though. I thought LOTR had too big of an epic sound constantly which tends to where my ear out.

    I have to wonder though, did anyone notice the following about SW VII? In Empire and Jedi the 'love' theme was played whenever Leia and Han were together as they did in VII. However, after Han's death in the final scene where Rey and Leia are departing ways (Rey going to find Luke) Princess Leia's theme was used for the first time since episode IV A New Hope. Anyone else catch that? Huh? Huh? :^)

  • I'm wondering how much longer it will be in theaters.. I wanted to see it center row in IMAX before it was gone.. Not sure if it was worth the 3rd go as there aren't many movies I've seen 3 times in the theater.

    Spider-man (2002)

    Avatar

    1st Transformers

    Dark Knight

    I know it's an odd combo.. but I feel episode vii would fit into that mix. But to be honest I'm already out of star wars fanboy mode. Valentines day the wife and I are going to see a movie. I let her pick the dinner and gave her two options for a movie. Revenant or Benghazi.

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