How to optimize an editor project

Want to share my problems with latest project, so to understand if there are best practices to care of.

Working with HF3P on a 2min web clip, composed from 36 small pieces, .m2ts AVC 1440x1080 25i (coming from mine Sony camcorder).

I did add to every clip a mix of denoiser, deinterlace, color grading, color correction, effects. No composite on this project, the animated intro is in a separate one.

Exporting it in H264 was impossible both on a Win7 8GB i5 2.5Ghz HD7950 system and on an iMac 8GB i5 3.4Ghz GTX775M, with HF crashing always near end.

The only way was to split it into 6 smaller parts of less than 25sec.

Since I didn't want to use even more time into investigating, want to hear if someone can point some best practices to avoid all this trouble.

Comments

  • Hi @davide445, I'm sorry you are experiencing issues with the software. Would you be able to upload your project and media so we can have a look here at what is going on? If you haven't got much time available you can just upload the entire thing to Google Drive, Dropbox or something else.

    Maybe for now you could try to change the work area and export this instead of the entire timeline (press i and o when in the timeline or click the set in point and set out point in the viewer playback toolbar)?

    I'm not sure when we'll look at it with the holiday season coming but we definitely will.

  • edited December 2015

    @CedricBonnier you have already all the info (except the media, available to share if you need it) from your support, was talking with Axel.

    As told I did resolve the problem splitting the project, and so I was able to produce the different parts. Issue resolved from my side (even if I loose the HF beautiful video transitions :)).

    Was interested to know if someone in the community can share a different experience to avoid this kind of troubles. As example I didn't have the time nor the sw to test a DNxHD recoding of all clips, didn't know if this can make any difference in only video no compositing intensive projects.

  • (Minor side note: I am uncertain if Axel is technically tech support staff in terms of bugs and code. Axel is frickin' awesome, but he'd West Coast US, and is eight hours out of synch with the office staff. He's certainly a Hitfilm expert in terms of teaching--and has this annoying habit of "or, you could just..."ing on the board, but this issue might be out of his job description.)

    @CedricBonnier seeing his footage is 1440x1080 with a non-square pixel aspect and interlaced, is it possible that the extra overhead of pixel scaling is causing a problem? I mean I wouldn’t think so, but no camera has been on the market shooting 1440 for a few years. I am a bit surprised it's spitting out 1440. Is this an old tape camera, because II thought 1440x1080 interlaced was only used for HDV. 

  • @Triem23 me too was thinking about the footage format. This odd resolution come from a consumer Sony CX200 camcorder released in 2012, that push out automatically this strange format when the setup is to compromise quality vs file size. I discovered it when my video editor produced bad videos starting from this format.

    Didn't know how to test against this if not upscaling all the clips to standard 1920x1080, a long work.

    Also to evidence I was able to produce the whole project just one time: using my old Intel HD3000 GPU, that was able in twice the time to produce the video but leaving gaps where the Denoiser was active. So Denoiser need to be part of the equation in some way.

  • Ok, Denoiser is possibility expecting square pixels, instead of 1.33 pixels. That might be it. Certainly good for the team to know. 

     

     

  • @Triem23 apparently there's still quite a few cameras that can shoot 1440 x 1080. I was just looking at a Sony A7r that has it as an option and I'm working on something right now that was shot at that res. Not sure what camera was used but I know it was purchased in the last year. (90% sure it's a Sony)

    Now here's the kicker - I'm having the exact same problem only in Sony Vegas using Vegas' internal de-interlacing and the HitFilm grain removal plugin. I ended up doing what I should have done to begin with which was going to an intermediate first. I don't think this is strictly an FXHOME problem though I think the real culprit is probably the MainConcept codecs.

    @davide445 So the moral of the story is go to an intermediate first. Scale to 1920 x 1080 and de-interlace at that point if you can too.

  • Although if the same format footage doesn't work in Vegas (which should love Sony footage) with the Hitfilm Denoiser, it still points to an issue with the Denoiser. I stick with my hypothesis that Denoiser expects square aspect ratio pixels.

    Oh, I just realized my cameras can shoot 1440x1080 as an option. I assume that's there to provide a low-bitrate "1080" option, or to match HDV cameras, but, man, that resolution was a desperation hack to begin with! 

    Speaking of format oddities, to this day I want to have strong words with the engineers who did 1080i specs. Why the hell they reversed the field order of 480i is beyond me, but it's kinda screwed up my workflow to this day... I still have to provide SD, NTSC output to this day! 

  • I was using Grain Removal not Denoise so the different plugin is what makes me think MainConcept + de-interlacing is the real problem. Since I was using Vegas de-interlacing that leaves MainConcept AVC and 1440 x 1080 as the only things in common. 

    I still have to provide SD, NTSC output to this day!

    OMG!!! I was trying to cut a corner or two on this one to save a little time because it has to go to DVD at some point which is annoying enough just doing it once but I have to do it 8 times then make a couple hundred copies of each! I hate going from HD to SD, I hate duplicating. I hate printing DVD labels, I hate putting the labels on and I hate stuffing sleeves! About the only part I do like is handing over the full box to FedEx because that means the torture is over.

  • Labels? I don't even do that. I have a mass Lightscribe burner. 

    For events and things where I know it's DVD, I just 24p it. I do things for local govt stations that have to conform to every broadcast standard. Fun! But everything is mastered HD for Blu-ray. I don't have to do those discs. I'm a freelancer, not an intern. Heh. 

  • I think I did resolved the arcane: just disabling all the Denoiser in the project clip I was able to export the full 2min version without any problem.

    So Denoiser for some reason didn't like "long" projects but work on smaller one, at least on mine.

    Another smaller problem I didn't understand is why exporting on standard settings an original 16:9 video, displayed into HF as 16:9 is exported as 4:3.

    I can export it correctly only forcing 1920x1080 and "Ignore aspect ratio" Scale Mode.

  • 1440 x 1080 is actually a 4:3 anamorphic standard. Like Triem23 mentioned it was a desperation hack to shoe horn HD content into SD DV bandwidth. The oddities are all about saving storage space and bandwidth.

    @Triem23 I didn't even know this one was coming. If I did things would be a little different like shot in 24p instead of 29.97 and I would've pushed making the DVD's off on a guy that actually enjoys making them. The only notice I got was a text message saying "You can pick up the recordings now" 

  • @Aladdin4d Ow. 

    @davide445, let me better explain my earlier posts so you see what's going on. 

    Aspect ratio is width in pixels divided by height in pixels calculated as a fraction and expressed like 4:3. In 4:3 video the image is 4 px wide for every 3 px high. For 16:9 they took the squares of 4 and 3, which becomes a wider image. 

    Pixel Aspect ratio is the horizontal/vertical ratio of each pixel in the image, expressed as a decimal. 1.0 is square. 

    SD video was 4:3. Wide-screen video was Hard-matted into a 4:3 frame.

    When HD/16:9 Tv sets came out matted Wide-screen looked terrible. Small video, center screen, surrounded by black. So a hack was devised. An wide-screen image would be squeezed into a thin vertical frame, then stretched out to fill the frame. This pulled the pixels out of square to a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33.

    This is called Anamorphic video because it's an electronic/digital version of what Anamorphic Lenses do in film. See, the aspect ratio of 35mm film is 4:3. Shooting wide-screen film the Anamorphic lens squeezes the light on the film, and the projector lens unwraps it again. 

    Anyway, HD cameras started hitting the market, but consumer storage media was small and slow and expensive. And manufacturers were also trying to cram HD onto DV tape. A medium designed for SD. 

    Solution: Encode Anamorphic Video to camera! Fewer pixels need less bandwidth. 1440x1080 is a 4:3 Aspect Ratio with a Pixel Aspect Ratio of 1.33. This is why you have to tick that box in export settings. 

    So, this is why I am guessing Denoiser is crashing the render. It's looking at pixel pattern for randomness, but it probably expects the native 1.0 pixel aspect ratio of the 1920x1080 workspace. 

    Incidentally... When digital video standards were set 640x480 was the current standard for VGA.  That's 4:3. 16:9 worked out to 640x360. HD became twice that (1280x720), Full Hd is three times that (1920x1080), Quad Hd is four times that (2560x1440) and 4k--Ultra Hd is six times the SD standard and twice the full HD standard (3840x2160)! Full HD has six times as many pixels as 640x480 video, and 4k has four times as many pixels as Full HD and twenty four times as many as VGA! 

    So, now you know why screen resolutions are what they are, what's happening with your camera, what I THINK is going on with Denoise, and why working in 4K is still so slow. 

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