Clip playing lags also in exported video

Hi guys,

While working on my short film I decided to export the 7 minutes I got to see if the pacing and framing of all the shots was right. While watching the exported video sadly I noticed some videos lagging, some videos showing only 1 frame for its entire length, and most doing just fine.

I decided to check if the problems in the video were also in the editor, and sure enough, the same videos with those problems in the exported video were behaving the same way in the editor.

Re-opened the project and went through the timeline, and noticed the same problems (lags/only showing 1 frame) but on different videos/moments. 

My conclusion is that Quicktime can't run all the ProRes.mov files all at the same time, and depending on what videos I have taken a look at inside the editor, some clips are being played fine and others aren't.

This means I will NEVER be able to export my film without about 1/8 of the clips lagging/only showing 1 frame, making my film unwatchable.

How do I fix this? I can finish the film but it will never be perfectly watchable this way.
-----
HitFilm 2 Express 
Windows 8.1
Nvidia GTX 750 Ti
8GB Ram 
Intel i5 4590

Quicktime32 bit (no 64 bit seems available).

Comments

  • edited May 2015

    I hope this'll get some attention, as always I appreciate any suggestions.. this doesn't seem like a common problem that I can fix by myself or try some solutions as there aren't any that I can think of.

    I can probably completely finish this project without problems but if I can't export this without hitches in it it's all for nothing...

    I hope any of you knows what could be done. :)

  • edited May 2015

    Sorry this got overlooked when you originally posted. What format are you exporting to? If you are exporting an uncompressed AVI, for example, then its likely just too much information for your computer to keep up with in real-time playback. Uncompressed is ok as an intermediate format, but its not designed for playback.

    If you aren't exporting uncompressed, then this is most likely an issue with Quicktime's RAM limitations, due to being 32-bit.  Can you please try set in and out points and export only half of your timeline, and see if you still get weirdness in the exported file? If the file is good, try reset the in and out points and export the other half of the timeline.

  • Hi @AxelWilkinson, thanks for replying. :) I exported to Mp4, so, compressed. I will try your suggestion of setting the in and out points later tonight. 

  • Your question may have already been answered here:

    https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/5863/problems-with-quicktime-on-windows-and-32-bit-limitations-answer

    Playing back in something like VLC instead of quicktime may help with those issues, but for editing them in something like Hitfilm, the codec itself could very well be the problem.  Transcoding to something more PC friendly could help a great deal.

  • Its also worth noting that for HitFilm 3 Pro the developers spent some time creating a workaround that effectively eliminates the Quicktime memory issue. But generally, if you are using ProRes as you mention, this isn't even an issue with HitFilm v.2, at least not with only 7 minutes of footage. I'm curious to hear the results of trying to export only a portion of the timeline.

  • edited May 2015

    @Mandalorian thanks for replying, what exactly do you mean by playing back in VLC instead of Quicktime? I have VLC as my main video player and I use it for all personal videos. All I need Quicktime for is to be able to use ProRes.mov files to edit with, because DNxHD wasn't working after multiple tries. (I'm working on Windows 8.1, that's why I tried DNxHD first and saw ProRes worked fine (in other words, HitFIlm 2 Express could import that, other than DNxHD...). Trying something else right now would be unthinkable since my film is about 7 minutes long and only sound, music and grading have to be added. I found the problem by exporting a first version of my timeline.

    Transcoding to ProRes was my way of transcoding to something more 'edit friendly' instead of mp4 or mov. files.

    @AxelWilkinson I am exporting the first half of my timeline as I write and I'm waiting for the result. I also tried importing the same amount of files into Premiere CS6 (uncut, fulllength videos) and that would give no troubles as far as I could see. This may support your statement that other software made a workaround.

    I'll report in a few minutes.

  • edited May 2015

    @AxelWilkinson I opened the project and exported the first 2:55 minutes which are my first two scenes. I scrolled a little through them to check for problems and I couldn't see any. I set the in (0:00) and out (2:55) points and exported Mp4, and the result is this:

    - no major lags or freezes
    - the first opening clip (a comp. shot) skipped a couple frames

    - another comp shot (just a video + time reverse) bugged and went back and forth between 2 frames, which should just have played fine

    - the rest was fine, and when I checked my timeline after exporting I experienced those same issues in the editor as well.

    After that I scrolled through the other part of the timeline and in those 4 scenes there were lags, freezes and stutters as I reported in my opening post.

    Re-opened the project again, same problems. Even the first clip already froze (not a comp.) In-point at 3:17, out at 7:42.

    Now I selected In @ 3:17 and out at around 4:40, while checking in the editor this part also and laggs, freezes and a comp. shot bug/glitch/error. (1 object moves through the frame differently than I assigned it to, sometimes it works like it should, sometimes it doesn't.) Note that I restarted the project in between each time I changed in-and out points.

    No good results I'm afraid...

     

  • edited May 2015

    Alright so I guess it's too late to start over or something similar, so I'm thinking about workarounds to be able to end up with a film without (lagg)playing problems.

    Is exporting small bits of the film (when it's finished) uncompressed an option, and then put  them together in Premiere and export that? Since Adobe seems to have found a way not to get tangled up in the Quicktime problems.

    Or anyone else might have a less time consuming idea? :)

  • AdyAdy Staff

    TMFilmsHD - Is there some way you could upload the Project  / Media so I can take a look at it?

    I'd like to help on this if I can.

    Ady

  • Given that you've done all the editing could you revert back to using the original mp4 files for the export? I'm not sure if HF2 has the ability to relink the media, if it does might be worht a try. I'd do a "save as" before trying anything though.

  • @Ady (sorry for late answer)

    thanks for the offer. Sure I can upload the projectfile, but for you to see the footage I'd need to upload 60GB of ProRes footage and some additional photos. I'm not in possession of any membership to a place where I can store and share that amount of files.

    Maybe if you have an option for such a thing for free, (and I'd like to know what you plan on doing with all of it out of curiosity) I'm willing to cooperate.

    I do realise that it might help others in the future.


    @__simon__

    Thanks for the suggestion, but even if HitFilm has that option (I'm not sure, I think it does) it wouldn't work, seen that the quicktime limit will quickly be reached. It's (partially) the reason for me to have converted the files to ProRes.

  • @TMFilmsHD, if the files are .mp4 then HitFilm wont use quicktime.

    If they are .mov and are H.264 with AAC, AC3, or LPCM audio then you may get away with simply renaming the .mov to .mp4. If that doesn't work then you could use another application to change the container to .mp4.

    I'm assuming your orignal files are H.264 since you mentioned "Transcoding to ProRes was my way of transcoding to something more 'edit friendly' instead of mp4 or mov. files." but if they're not then the above wont work.

    Of course back it all up before trying anything.

  • AdyAdy Staff

    TMFilmsHD - No problem.

    I just wanted to take a look at the Project, export it & see if the problem would replicate here. But as you've just told me that there is 60GB of footage within the Project, I'm going to assume that you are hitting the memory limit of QuickTime as already has been suggested.

    Can some of the footage be removed, is all 60GB being used? Getting the amount of files down to those needed to just export the Project should alleviate the memory issues. 

  • @__Simon__  Like I said, I'm using ProRes as a more edit friendly codec.. ;)

    @Ady That's right, my thought was that the QuickTime memory limit was reached.  My followup question was (since I can't change the reaching of the QT Limit anymore due to the stage of editing I'm in) how to be able to still export the project, bit by bit for example, compressed or not, to put together in another editor that doesn't have QT Limit problems.(my idea for now, not sure if it'll work)

    Not all of the 60G's is used, since I selected all of my sequence files that I made ProRes. This includes takes that I ended up not using in the editor, since I make those decisions in the editor. There's no way for me to accurately tell you how much I'm actually using without making a list of all imported footage (unused takes I deleted from the media section) and select those in the original folders I stored them in.

    So, if I were to upload my files, it'd be about 60gb, as I don't have the time to make that list + selection (right now).

  • @TMFilmsHD, my mistake, I mis-read your posts and thought you had finished editing and simply wanted to export the final result. I do have one last suggestion and that would be to trascode to an I-frame only MP4, i.e. like the 200mbps files that the GH4 can record. I'm not sure what software to use to do this. If this is something you'd be interested in trying then let me know and I'll see if I can figure how to do it. I have been thinking of doing it myself as an alternative to transcoding to DNxHD, to avoid quicktime, but since HF3 introduced proxies I lost motivation as my problem was solved.

  • @__simon__ well actually you're right, because when writing the opening topic I figured it was too late to start again, so I was looking for ways to successfully export my film when it's finished, without exported laggs (so yeah I was looking ahead of time).

    I still think that when I'm finished, the best thing to do would be to export very small bits at a time (probably uncompressed...)  and put them together in Premiere where there are no Quicktime Limits. 

    Unless someone has a better idea, the reason I started the topic ;) 

  • edited May 2015

    Here's a short Teaser Trailer I made for the film I'm working on and I needed your help with. :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MtFBheQjJM

  • edited May 2015

    Looks nice and professional! Is the clock running counter-clockwise at 0:33 intentional though? If it was, it didn't come across as such for me, I kept wondering about it basically the entire rest of the trailer (as you didn't give me anything else to moan about :D )

  • Thanks for the compliments Robin. It is intentional, yes. And I think, thinking about it is a good thing.. but I do think you were thinking about it out of technical aspect (''Is that on purpose?'') rather than creative (''What does it mean?'') though.

    What do you think could have made that shot look more intentional?  Because if more people feel like that I did something wrong.

  • I also wondered why it was going backwards, then part of my brain wondered if it was viewed in a mirror, and spent the next few seconds working out the mirror-time, which distracted me from the next shot.

    Assuming a time manipulation theme: how about the clock going forwards for a second or two, the hand flicking back and forth quickly, then going into reverse? You could just fit that in the 4 seconds it's there for.
    The trees might look weird though, as they'd all jump about, you might prefer isolating the clock face and let the background continue as normal, so stabilising it first to deal with that, then adding camera movement back afterwards, perhaps?

  • Well, I was only thinking about that technical aspect because I failed to find a meaning in the shot the first time I watched it, but I refused to accept that you really would let a mistake like this slip in. I think the key problem is this: You introduce who is probably the main character, put him in the role of the tragic genius, everything so far is related directly to him, and besides the genius thing everything seems pretty normal and grounded - and then, suddenly, a clock going backwards, with neither anything before it that would indicate that anything paranormal could happen, nor any abstract themes that would allow the clock running backwards to be interpreted just as a symbol rather than something that's actually happening.

    Having seen the trailer again now, I see the next shot is the main character looking up to exactly that clock, with a vague look in his eyes. The reason that didn't came through the first time is probably that I interpreted the fade-over-black between the two shots as separating two shots having no direct relation from one another in a style typical for trailers.

    So to make this more intentional, the two key things would be having anything before that clock that unmistakably indicates something paranormal can happen / is already happening, and/or smoothing the transition between the clock-shot and the one after it - maybe by having a less distinct and noticeable transition, or, probably even better, showing the clock actually being in the same shot as the character.

  • edited May 2015

    @Palacono thanks for replying.
    I appreciate your thoughts because that's very valuable... I wanted to know if my message behind it was understood, and it wasn't, so this makes me learn a lot.

    I like the idea of the tripod and speed up and post process work, it has been suggested to me on the forum once before, but at the time of filming I didn't have the option for tripod there. I tried stabilising, tracking, masking, and again tracking and parenting in HitFilm, but stabilising was a huge pain in the ass on this shot. Definitely gonna use a tripod next time for this type of shots.

    @Robin, huge thanks for the detailed opinion, you're helping me learn a lot here and your opinion is very helpful. If I could, I would go and change it, but I already put it out there. I should have thought of you guys before I made it public, but there's no harm done.

    Now I see, deleting the separation between the two shots and deleting the fade transition would already make a huge difference... As I said above, the tripod way was no option at the time, but... big lesson learned today because of you, so thanks :) 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    I think Robin has covered that shot well. 

    Otherwise, it's a nicely cut teaser, giving just enough hook to tantalize without spoiling anything. 

    A couple of general notes on "film language." Dissolves usually indicate passage of enough time to separate two events, and fades to black usually mean "The End" (of the scene, if not the whole film).

    A great example of a misuse of fades is Peter Jackson's "Return of the King." Jackson keeps fading to black rather than using dissolves or transitional shots at the end of the film--the first fade to black with the eagles rescuing Frodo and Sam works as they are near death, and this is ALSO the end of Sauron and the War of the Ring, transitioning into the multi-part epilogue. The other fades don't work at all... They feel like "THE END," and odd endings to boot. Dissolves and transitional shots would have worked better as changes between Frodo recovering, Aragorn's coronation, the return to The Shire and the journey to the White Havens. 

    Even in trailers fades are used to jump around in time... A trailer may use five quick fades to black in a row showing scenes that look similar, but, in the film,  those shots are usually far apart. 

    Side note: in a Doctor Who animation I have in-progress I misused fades to black. Because of these fades most viewers are assuming it's a single Dalek moving across the globe...  It's not. It's several Daleks acting simultaneously around the world. Yet the fades are making it look like a single Dalek even though A) the first shot shows tens of Daleks deploying from a mothership, B) the other shots in the sequence are showing different types of Daleks that are DIFFERENT COLORS! Misused fades can mess up storytelling... 

  • edited June 2015

    @Triem23 thanks for coming up for examples... you definitely know that movie. ;)

    But yeah, I learned the lesson. I'll need a few more weeks to finish up my film and then... something new. 

    By the way, did you guys notice the replaced text on the tombstone on the graveyard? 0:26 took me a month to get it done properly in HitFilm 2 Express. 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    I did not notice the replacement text on the tombstone. You did it right. 

  • Didn't see it either. Revisiting the shot I still can only guess it must be the black stone you replaced the text on as that's the one of interest for the character, but couldn't tell otherwise. Good job on that!

  • edited June 2015

    @Triem23 @Robin whoa guys thanks so much. Only on full screen I could read the text, in the movie there's another close-up of it after this shot. That one's even trickier since it's supposed to be readable but also realistic. Can't wait for your opinions on that one.

    I learned so much of you guys and also making these things. Seeing my ideas and 'vision' of this movie and especially the VFX shots coming together is great.

  • edited June 2015

    I guess this is one of the topics I got the most response with and I'd like to ask if any of you has problems with being mentioned in the special thanks section of the credits of my film, as members of the HitFilm forum community whom I couldn't have made this film without.

    I felt bad asking so many damn questions because of technical reasons during the making of my film and it's almost done, and I really appreciate every single one of you who helped me out over the course of 6 months. Without  you guys I very likely wouldn't have had a finished film by now I can be proud of, so thanks. 
    If any of you do just let me know.. or you'll be mentioned (be warned!) ;)

    Edit: I'll mention all members who shared their thoughts, opinions and contributed to the solutions to my problems in all my posts since november.

  • I'm happy to say it's finally here, and I would really appreciate it if you guys could take a look and give me some constructive criticism! 

    All edited with Visual Effects and normal edit in HitFilm 2 Express, I made:
    - animation to make it look like as if the camera went straight through glass
    - adding objects like; text and photos,in real life scenes as if they were really there
    - animation to make it look like as if the camera went straight into someone's thoughts through his eyes
    - removing objects that were filmed, like text and objects
    - adding text to 3d objects, 
    - removing text on 3d objects

    as well as grading, the complete sound and music edit, as well as fine credits :)

    PLEASE let me know what you think of my work so I can learn.
    After you've seen it, tell me what objects you think I added/removed throughout the film, let's see if you can figure it out :)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NscUKv46EVo

Sign in to comment

Leave a Comment