Very slow when editing (possibly resolved driver issue)

edited March 2015 in Express Support

I have an XMG P505 with windows 8.1, an i7-4710HQ, nvidia 970m, 20 gigs of ram, 3 hard drives (all SSDs).

My problem is that HitFilm's UI is very slow to react. After opening the tasks manager I found out why that is: the program becomes unresponsive quite often.

I made a screen capture to show it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTGepVs-H8c&feature=youtu.be

Besides that, there is some weird behaviour too, you can see it at about 1:24 when the whole window displaces to the left. This happens randomly. 

From 1:38 it is just me being clumsy at closing the recording, could not be bothered to edit it out.

I have put the project file and all the stuff in it here for  your perusal.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jnZQUigYKBS1dpNVA3N0lqeWc/view?usp=sharing

MOD: I've edited the title of the thread to be more up-to-date with the discussion. Thanks! -Simon

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Comments

  • Do you have the latest nvidia drivers? (Very important for hitfilm)

    If the have nvidia optimus technology on your PC make sure hitfilm is configured to use the nvidia card and not the i7 chips integrated graphics card.

    I just got a laptop with a gtx780m 4gb and hitfilm runs well on it. Otherwise I have a very similar space to you. Slightly less memory 16gb but hitfilm runs from ssd. Media is on a 7200 spin HDD. My system works well so with a 970 you should be faster. It will be the setup of your pc for sure or you have a very complex effects setup

  • The other possibility is antivirus software. Turn that off when using hitfilm too if you get issues. Some can interfere with it. 

  • Yeah, my drivers are up to date. The project is "just" a projection following the tutorial, but I added a 3D model.

    I have also created other projects that are simpler and the same issue appeared.  

    I gave the antivirus suggestion a try. Disabled it for 10 minutes. It made absolutely no difference.

    It's pretty frustrating, because rendering actually works well. Compared to my previous machine, this machine flies.

  • edited March 2015

    Are you using the files that come straight out of your camera?

  • The project that I show in the video is a projector demo with a 3D model. No  video was involved in that project. It is a UI problem. Rendering works great.

    I understand that a crappy codec (H264 in its many implementations and the now for me dreaded H265) may result in too many resources being directed to the processing of video and as a result the UI not acting as it should, but if you look at the task manager on the video, you'll see that the processor never even hit 25% (one maxed out core). 

     

    In any case, I have had the same issue with projects that involve video both XACV-S (25p, 50mbs) and DNxHD.

     Also, today I spent a few hours playing with the denoise effect (btw, I'd swear I once watched a tutorial for it, but I can't find it anywhere), and weirdly enough, as time went by, the problem stopped appearing.

    It is really puzzling.

     

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator
    edited March 2015

    HitFilm may not be responding because it's waiting on something else. What I have no idea but you might try the Sysinternals Processor Explorer and Process Monitor to try and get some idea of what's really going on in the background.

    Sysinternals Process Utilities

    There's also the brilliantly named What's my Computer Doing 

  • AdyAdy Staff

    AramM - Your system has two GPU's, an Intel HD & a dedicated Nvidia 970M. I'm guessing your system is not set-up to use the more powerful Nvidia card & is instead using the weaker Intel HD  4600. You will need to manually set-up your machine to use the Nvidia card when running HitFilm, I have enclosed a link below showing you how to do that.

    How do I customize Optimus Profiles & Settings 

    Ady

  • Good call, Ady, but I have already done that.

    Actually, I wonder if that's the issue, because I have fxmediaqtserver.exe , hitfilmpro, hitfilmserver and renderclient all manually set up to use the Nvidia card. 

    I know that I once saw a post in the forums indicating which executables were supposed to be ran with the dedicated video card, but I could not find it again and went all in!

  • I experience the same thing, fwiw.  And only run HF when running HF.

    The HF tutorials on youtube are fine-tuned to look quick, I think? Would be handy if the tricks used to do that were shared in an intro video. I think the obvious one (?) is always making the comp shots or even the project no more than about 10 seconds.

    Doing the render is another. Maybe triem can share some tips on speeding up workflow too?

  • "Actually, I wonder if that's the issue, because I have fxmediaqtserver.exe , hitfilmpro, hitfilmserver and renderclient all manually set up to use the Nvidia card. "

    Is that recommended? I thought having hitfilmpro set to use Nvidia GPU was enough. 

  • I have a hazy memory of a post somewhere in this forum recommending more than one executable to be run with the dedicated video card, but I could not find it. I'd say that if Hitfilm is working well for you with your current configuration, don't mess with it.

  • AdyAdy Staff

    @AramM - The processes shouldn't need to be set to the dedicated card, if you can find the post where this would stated that would be helpful.

    Are you seeing any issues when using the Vegas integration?

    Additionally, I have downloaded the Project you attached in your first post & I don't see any issues on the machines we have here. Are you still having problems with your Projects?

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator
    edited March 2015

    @aarondc - for the record, we don't do anything special to 'speed up' performance for tutorials. It's all recorded live. We might occasionally proxy render or preview render to show a complex VFX shot in real time, but that's what those features are for. We make occasional cuts to remove sections where nothing happens, for pacing reasons.

  • edited March 2015

    @Ady I tried to find the post but was not able to. Do you know which of the executables should be configured to be ran with the dedicated card if it is more than one?

    I do not own a version of Vegas that has integration with Hitfilm, so no help from me there.

    Actually a few days after sending the original post, Hitfilm started crashing on boot. I used system restore and the "fix the installation" option of the installer a few times before Hitfilm started working again.  Your support people should have the reports that Hitfilm generates when it crashes.  You may find something relevant there.

    I have just had a crash on boot right now, but I will play with Hitfilm a bit and let you know how it goes today.

    Best,

    Aram

  • edited March 2015

     I have a similar speced laptop here(i7 4710HQ, 8G RAM, hitfilm on SSD), except mine is equipped with 860m graphic card. I'm also having quite slow responses from my projects (yes, I've set hitfilm to use 860m), and AramM's project is also quite sluggish here too.  

    One thing I noticed is that after update 2, rendering takes much less both CPU/GPU power compared to the original pro release.  Not necessarily related to this topic, just thought I'd bring it up here as well. 

    Is there a way to downgrade the preview rendering (while editing) so I can work more smoothly? My current project(which contains only a 3D model and a few lights, plus a compshot with text shattering effects) takes about 30 secs to respond to my every operation.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @wallness near the top-right of the preview window is a field saying "Full." You can change this to "Half" or "Quarter" to speed things up. On the lower left of the preview pane are toggles to turn off lights, shadows, motion blur, depth of field, which can speed up preview renders as well. 

  •  Thanks, Triem, that doesn't do much though oddly. Anyway, I came across the post Aram mentioned above:

    http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/5832/dual-gpu-laptop-which-hf3p-executables-use-the-gpu/p1

    There a staff said it's good to assign all those *.exe to the more powerful GUP.

  • @Simon it may not be special to you, but "occasionally proxy render or preview render to show a complex VFX shot in real time" is still something I would not confidently say "oh yeah that, no worries, do it all the time", and yet think I should be.

  • @Ady, today I spent a bit of time "playing" with the denoise effect and everything was fine until I threw in DenoiseClmg (an OFX effect I got through the people who make Natron) and the same weird behaviour appeared: weird shift to the left of the screen and the program randomly becoming unresponsive (which again is visible in the task manager). 

    When I got rid of the effect, Hitfilm started working well again. I then reopened the project that I put in my original post and Hitfilm's erratic behaviour returned.

    My guess is that there is something in the way that some effects work that triggers the erratic behaviour of the UI. 

    Also, I have let windows close the program one of the times that it became unresponsive and now Hitfilm is crashing when I try to restart it. I have already sent two dump files and hope that these (together with the ones I sent a while ago) help shed a light on the problem.

  • Well, I do know that using the simple 2D tracker in HF3 is painful. When the tracker loses the object it's tracking and I press the pause button, it takes a good 15 seconds or longer for it to "pause"!

    I tried the same footage in HF Express, and the pauses were almost immediate!

  • AdyAdy Staff

     @Aram - I sadly don't have any knowledge of the OFX Plug-in you are using, but I can certainly take a look at it. Do you perhaps have a link to where you downloaded it from?

    So only that Project exhibits the erratic behaviour?

    The error report is being analysed so hopefully it will reveal something for us to take a look at. Is the program still failing for you? 

    @Aph - If you're having issues with a particular feature it might be best starting your own thread or contacting support here.

  • edited March 2015

    Hi, @Ady, the plugin is included with Natron https://natron.inria.fr/

    Yes, only that project and when I was playing with different approaches to denoising and added that plugin from Natron.

    I tried reopening the project after today's update and the problem persists.

    I could try making another project using the projector and any other effect I used in the first one I uploaded to see if that's the source of the problem. Let me know if  you think I should do that. 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @AramM the issue you are having with the Natron plug-in is at their end, not FxHome's. 

    Yes, HFP3 is OpenFX compliant, but that simply means that certain libraries and commands are standardized, and NOT that all OpenFX plug-ins automatically work in Hitfilm. 

    Let's use Hitfilm's OFX plug-ins as an example. Any Hitfilm plug-in that can have a parameter parented to a point can have that same parameter parented to a null in After Effects, but in Sony Vegas that parameter will be manually keyframed in the effect panel. Why? Vegas doesn't support nulls and points. FXhome needed to optimize code for Vegas. 

    Unless and until Natron updates their plug-ins to work in Hitfilm there is no guarantee that they will work. I have this same issue with NewBlue plug-ins in Hitfilm--I have the Vegas NewBlue plug-ins and MOST of them work in Vegas, but any NewBlue effect that works in 3D space (like Titler Pro 3)  crashes Hitfilm because Vegas and Hitfilm handle 3D space in totally different ways. NewBlue doesn't even list Hitfilm as a compatible host, despite 99% of their effects and transitions working in Hitfilm. 

  • AdyAdy Staff

    AramM - Sure, it certainly cannot hurt to try creating the Project again, if you don't mind that is. But I'd truly like to know what was causing the issue in the first place. I'm not able to replicate the behaviour here at all, so it's all very odd.

    Also to add to what Triem23 was saying about the OFX Plug-in from Natron, we would need to take a look at the plug-in to ensure it was working correctly with HitFilm. Which I'm happy to do, but in order for it to be 100% compatible with HitFilm the developer may need to make changes to the plug-in based on our findings. So there is no guarantee that the plug-in from them will work correctly at this moment in time as it's never been tested.

    Ady

  • @Ady and @Triem23, I get the Natron thing. I was not expecting the plugin to work, tbh, I just installed Natron and found that its plugins were available in Hitfilm. I only brought it up because the "symptoms" were exactly the same.

    I'll try to make a similar project and see how that works.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited March 2015

    I will say that HFU2 responds faster on my machine than HFP3, but I suspect with OpenFX and HFP3'S unified 3D space and other enhancements it's making a lot more calculations under the hood than HF2. I also suspect that, despite near-identical operations between the two versions that 3 has a lot more new code than we think. 

  • @Triem A good amount more yeah ;) also the fractal noise scale is much better in depth, much richer and vibrant, there's alot of small tweaks going unnoticed,

    also the dish was put on the dalek ship for good reason il expain in the other thread   

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @NXVisual And I was assuming you put the dish on to give it a kickass "Main Gun." At least that's what I am treating it as.  ;-) Good to see you popping onto this forum. You have many tips that will be useful to many users. 

  • AdyAdy Staff

    AramM - No problem at all, sorry if our replies came off in the wrong way, that was not either of our intentions. We just wanted to clarify the OFX side of things in case it wasn't clear. :)

    Every piece of information you provide is helpful & I do appreciate the effort you're going to in order to help us solve this problem.

    Any further update on this issue?

  • edited March 2015

    @Ady, no problem at all. Sorry if my reply came off aggressive. I just wanted to clarify that I do expect FxHome to look into the problem I have when using only plugins that they have developed, but I would never get angry about third party plugins failing.

    @Triem23 Man, I had some of NewBlue's plugin's for Vegas 11 and those crashed vegas almost every time. Quite a few of Vegas' own internal plugins crashed Vegas all the time on my system too. 

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