3D models don't automatically create a camera anymore (answered)

edited December 2014 in Pro Support

Not sure if this was intentional.   In HF2U, when a 3D model was imported, the software mentioned that a camera was required and the model was imported and deliniated as a 3D layer.   In HF3, the model is imported to the composit as 2D layer and user intervention is required to denote the model layer as 3D.   

Comments

  • I don't know if it's intentional, but it's a side effect of the unified 3D space. In HFP3, leaving a model "2D" means it behaves more-or-less as in HFU2 : the model responds to camera angle and model placement, but composites like a 2D layer with alpha. In this mode you can add effects directly to a model layer. 3D Unrolled treats the model as 3D in the unified spspace, but you can't  add effects to the model. "3D" mode with models is odd, now. The model is rendered to a 3D plane, which can cause clipping-plane issues. 

  • edited December 2014

    This is by design because the unified 3D space isn't for everyone and can be somewhat surprising if you're expecting traditional layer compositing.

  • Minor note---for 3D work, I actually have saved "template" files on my desktop that contain a composite shot with my default camera rig in it--I do this because my default camera rig parents the camera to a "Tilt Point," which is parented to a "Pan Point" which is parented to a "Dolly Point." (Why this rig? Hitfilm always rotates things in the order x/y/z--this point rig makes my camera act like it's on a tripod head.). Since I don't feel like re-rigging the camera everydamntime I animate, I just saved this template, and double-click on it on the desktop to start a new project (note: the template file is set to "read only" so i can't overwrite it.)

    Saving a similar template might be helpful if you do a lot of 3D work--it may only take 5 seconds to create the default camera (and another minute or two to build my rig), but that five seconds of preset adds up.

  • Hey, would you mind uploading your template project @Triem23? I'm sure we would all find it useful. We can host it if needed?

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited December 2014

    @JoshuaDavies I actually already have links to those template projects in this thread: http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/5382/triem-23-s-templates-tutorials-and-projects#latest

    FxHome is more than welcome to copy and/or host these things. They are still the HFU2 versions, but they work perfectly fine in HFP3. I also want to note that these templates store a couple of other states--for example, I prefer to sort my media pool arrainged by type and grouped by media, which isn't Hitfilm's default. Once again, by storing that state in a template, it's just another little 5-10 second task i don't have to do every time I start a project.

    Here's a reproduction of the relevant post:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jx7i5e2dtb4rnyr/Hitfilm%20Start%20Templates.zip
    The following is taken from the README notes for these templates:
    These are simple start templates for Hitfilm 2 Express and Ultimate.
    Very simply,each template contains two composite shots--one with a 3D camera that's been "Tripod-rigged"* and a second composite shot with a simple text object set up for online notes. The Media Pool has been set to "Sort by Media," as that's how I prefer to sort my media pool.


    I keep these templates in a folder on my desktop--by double-clicking the appropriate template, Hitfilm automatically opens, and I'm ready to edit!


    These templates have been flagged as "Read-Only" in Windows, so on Windows machines you'll be unable to accidentally save over them. I have no idea about Mac.
    Fonts for the "NOTES" Composites has been set to Arial--this should be standard on all machines.


    *"Tripod-Rigged Camera" you ask? Read on:
    Hitfilm interprets keyframe rotations using a Euler order of X/Y/Z--this means when you set keyframes, Hitfilm FIRST rotates on the X-axis, then the Y-axis, then the Z-axis. This can lead to difficulties with creating realistic camera movement. A camera on a tripod would Pan on the Y-axis independently of Tilting on the X-Axis. Since Hitfilm always rotates the X-axis (Tilt) before the Y-axis (Pan), when directly keyframing a camera in Hitfilm, it does not behave like a real camera.


    The cameras in these templates have been rigged to allow the camera to behave correctly, as if it were actually mounted on real-world hardware.

    The point "Camera X-Tilt" controls camera up/down tilt--the only thing that should be keyframed for this point is X-axis rotation.
    ADDED, 11/30/2014: The Camera X-Tilt point should also be used for Z-rotation (Yaw).

    The point "Camera Y-Tilt" controls camera left/right pan--the only thing that should be keyframed for this point is Y-axis rotation.
    The point "Camera Dolly" controls camera position--this is the point you drag to have the camera move to different locations.


    The built-in Hitfilm camera rotates around a "nodal" point--this means that the virtual camera rotates around the center of the "imaging plane" (i.e. the digital sensor of a camera). Unless you are using a "nodal" or "panorama" tripod head, real-world cameras do not rotate around the nodal point. The cameras in these templates have the X/Y rotation points set just a little bit "behind" and "below" the camera nodal point--it's a subtle thing, but it does mean that these cameras are behaving much more like a camera mounted to an actual tripod head.

  • Thats why i suggested a feature of shareable rigs/ some rig presets, also maybe a EZ Rig feature.

      Wouldn't it be nice to easily throw some rigs into a scene?  Like you know you are gonna have a space battle in a short.  So you pick your Large Space battle rig and bam the animation work is done.  You easily scroll through the  model points and can set models to it.   Now you need to have your models firing on each other.  All of your model points have start and end points that that you can add under them.

    Imagine setting up a battle between all the starship Enterprise models and the borg.  With the EZ rig feature you can set it up in 5 minutes.  I could have the Enterprise C firing photon torpedos on one ship,  firing phasers on anothership and towing the Enterprise A to safety faster then ever before.

  • This, @MichaelJames, my friend, is why I save simple versions of so many of my projects with models stripped out but my rigs intact---create my own presets!.

    Off topic, but on continuing wishlist, i still want to have camera targets, light targets, particle trajectory targets, particle deflectors and particle forces to be parentable to a point--right now those parameters are "relative" to the position of the light/camera/emitter. I would love to see these parameters toggling between "relative" (how they currently work), "Absolute" (set a point in space and forget it) and "layer" (following a point).

    That's now my #1 wishlist item for future updating. Normal and Bump maps are #2. ;-)

  • @Triem23: I second that. The issues I've been having with lightling 3d models has highlighted to me how counter intuitive the lighting setup in hitfilm can be.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited December 2014

    It's not lighting so much for me as camera animation and physics forces. My current "Planet Rings" animation is doing pretty much everything in the particle sim, but the entire fleet of fighter craft (and it's thrusters and missile fire) I have is attached to a point moving the entire group, which means I'm having to animate offsets into the attractor force that makes the missles "home." and the deflector that's triggering the explosion textures.

    That said, it's still pretty effing cool that I have asteroids, fighters, fighter thrusters, missile fire and explosions all rigged up to a set of particle sims and forces! (Revision 4 physics adjustments is rendering)

     

    EDIT: Grrrrr.... Forgot to set the mobile emitters driving the shattering rocks back to texture color from red. Oh well--with no lights this this only takes about 20 min to render right now... It's when I put my high-res planet back in and turn on lights, grades and motion blur that the render time is going to become 12 hours....

  • @Triem23, I've not tried camera animation yet apart from some motrack stuff and I missed that in your last post. So year anything thats set up that way in hitfilm needs review.  

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