Hitfilm Crashing consistently

Hi guys,
I bought a brand new computer a month ago.  Recently, Hitfilm Ultimate, has been crashing on a regular basis when i am in the middle of an edit.
Here are my computer stats and yes, everything is up to date- everything......
Intel Core i7- 4820, 4 core 10 mb cache, overclocked up to 4.2 ghz
16 gb quad channel ddr3 at 1600
NVIDIA 760Ti 2 bg GDDR5 ( fully updated)
64 bit machine Windows 7 home premium
After the non responsive  crash, HF says would you like to create a dump file with optional email and name, of what occurred.. Well, that became non responsive too and indicated that it could not create a dump file.
Ive restarted the computer a few times, restarted hitfilm a few times.  Hitfilm starts up sometimes, and lets me work for a bit. Other times, it wont let me start without it crashing right away... This has all occurred in the last week.  HitFilm is also sluggish while scrolling thru NLE time line, not responsive as i think it should be, given the machine and GPU it is running on.. Any help would be appreciated.  I included a pic of the initial crash, although  there's not much info to it..
Ben
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Comments

  • AdyAdy Staff
    Hi guys,
    I bought a brand new computer a month ago.  Recently, Hitfilm Ultimate, has been crashing on a regular basis when i am in the middle of an edit.
    Here are my computer stats and yes, everything is up to date- everything......
    Intel Core i7- 4820, 4 core 10 mb cache, overclocked up to 4.2 ghz
    16 gb quad channel ddr3 at 1600
    NVIDIA 760Ti 2 bg GDDR5 ( fully updated)
    64 bit machine Windows 7 home premium
    After the non responsive  crash, HF says would you like to create a dump file with optional email and name, of what occurred.. Well, that became non responsive too and indicated that it could not create a dump file.
    Ive restarted the computer a few times, restarted hitfilm a few times.  Hitfilm starts up sometimes, and lets me work for a bit. Other times, it wont let me start without it crashing right away... This has all occurred in the last week.  HitFilm is also sluggish while scrolling thru NLE time line, not responsive as i think it should be, given the machine and GPU it is running on.. Any help would be appreciated.  I included a pic of the initial crash, although  there's not much info to it..
    Ben


    Hi Ben,
    Sorry you are having trouble with the software, I do have just a few questions if that's ok?
    What are you trying to edit? If it's footage, what format & what codec is the footage in? (.MP4, AVCHD, MPEG.. etc)
    If it's not footage, what effects are you using? (Particle Simulator, Atomic Particle, Clone Stamp.. etc)
    Does it only happen with one particular Project or is this happening with all Projects?
    Thanks,
    Ady

  • I tried to use Mov files but they didn't work so well. I then converted this over to mp4 which was worse. I tried avi files after converting, and that worked better in terms of audio and video matching up and producing little sluggishness. I'm still getting crashes. It could very well be the video files I'm trying to use.
    I'm not using any particle effects... Yet...
  • Both .mov and .avi are containers, which can contain a massive variety of different video codecs.  Its the codec that determines how well the footage will work for editing, and how smoothly and quickly it can be decompressed.
    For any video clip you have imported into HitFilm, you can go to the Media panel, and click the cog icon to the right of the file name to open the Media Properties.  It will list the codec it uses there.
  • I just get some crashes after export a project. The project are exported fine even HF crashes in the end, not big deal...
  • What are the best file formats to use then? Would it be best to convert them over first before importing to hitfilm? By the way, what else could cause the crashes and or sluggishness while scrolling thru footage. It becomes non responsive a lot. Again, with this new, well capable machine, there must be other reasons. One more thing... Ive used mov files and mp4 files before with no crashes so I am confused. Could I do anything else tweak hitfilm or my system to prevent this? Does Antivirus software affect hitfilm at all? On my older computer I was having issues and I downloaded fit it utilities 15 which helped fix issues and my computer ran better. I put fix it utilities on my new computer because it contains Antivirus and malware protection.. Just curious if that may cause a conflict.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    I think, overall, the best file codec to use with Hitfilm seems to be DnxHD, which, as a codec, sits in a .mov wrapper.
    Like Axel said, .mov and .avi are wrappers/containers for varied codec. Axel I I were semi-speculating last night. Window QT is 32-bit and can issues with large (over 4GB) amounts of data. BUT, QT will be a lot more stable with a DNxHD codec .mov than a h.264 codec .mov. We hypothesize that the mp4, being a highly compressed codec that doesn't store many "full frames," but interpolates most of it's frame data, requires a lot more system resources and RAM to deal with. The DNxHD, being less compressed, requires less RAM and CPU power to deal with at the cost of requiring more drive throughput.
    This is a good, short article detailing differences between "edit" and "delivery" codecs. http://telestreamblog.telestream.net/2012/04/save-yourself-frustration-use-editing-formats-when-editing-2/
    Download the DNxHD codec here: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319
    If you don't have another NLE to use to transcode to DNxHD (Avid, Vegas, Premiere, FCP), then you can use MPEG Streamclip, which is free and can be downloaded here: http://www.squared5.com/
    Antivirus can affect Hitfilm (Antivirus can actually effect everything--it's always on, it's always running, and it's making a lot of low-level system calls all the time. Depending on the antivirus, it might try to scan every file as it's being read or written. Obviously, with video editing where you're constantly reading and writing to disc, this is a huge slowdown.). I know FxHome staff has said there are issue with Avast (disable it). It's probably helpful to go ahead and disable antivirus when editing. If you don't need internet at the time, go ahead and kill your network connections as well, so you don't have to worry about intrusion while your antivirus is off.
    Another thing--and I don't know if Fix It has this tool--I use iolo System Mechanic, and it has a module to turn off unused background programs. I'm looking at that module as I type, and there's about 200 MB of crap running right now I would turn off before editing: Things like print drivers and spooling (I'm on a laptop at a coffee shop. Don't need that tonight.) my Wacom Tablet (but I'm not drawing tonight--turn it off) and various automated "update" services as well as misc stuff like the nVidia Steroscopic driver (this is a mono display... turn it off!). This would free up a quarter-gig of RAM as well as free up a few percentage point of CPU cycle. System Mechanic lets me save profiles of things to turn off as well, so I can go into my video edit profile (which turns off print spoolers and junk, but leaves my Shuttle Pro active) or my Photoshop profile (which turns off the Shuttle Pro but leaves on the Wacom).
    Hope this is helpful.
  • edited July 2014
    Antivirus can affect Hitfilm (Antivirus can actually effect everything--it's always on, it's always running, and it's making a lot of low-level system calls all the time. Depending on the antivirus, it might try to scan every file as it's being read or written. Obviously, with video editing where you're constantly reading and writing to disc, this is a huge slowdown.). I know FxHome staff has said there are issue with Avast (disable it). It's probably helpful to go ahead and disable antivirus when editing. If you don't need internet at the time, go ahead and kill your network connections as well, so you don't have to worry about intrusion while your antivirus is off.


    As for Avast (and other anti-virus software)- on my machine I just added my projects directory and output directory to excluded folders list, to avoid scaning activities there. Had no problem with Avast at all after this.
  • I've converted my footage to DNxHD and unplugged my internet and disabled Windows Defender and Hitfilm is still crashing after playing through the timeline for a bit. It's really annoying

  • There are some anti-virus programs that are truly awful and cause more problems than they solve. I've been known to suggest that developers of anti-virus software should be taxed to pay for the support headaches they cause other devs, only half-jokingly.

    That said, Microsoft's security stuff is great. It protects well without causing unnecessary problems. Plus, it's free. Using anything else doesn't really make much sense on a Windows system.

    Anti-virus is a bit like national security - you have to get the balance right between security and freedom, otherwise it's all pointless. :P

  • These are such disappointing replies from Hitfilm. Decoders, antivirus programs, the outside world is to blame, of course !, not Hitfilm itself. Shame on you. I also have a brand new PC with Xeon, 32GB basically overkill for Hitfilm but it crashes all the time even when just crying to proxy a 7 GB MP4 file. Today I bought the upgrade to HitfilmPro 4 hoping this will be proper software. Now I feel cheated having burnt $199 for buggy software. I was able to upload the error report. SO pleaeaeasse Hitfilm, stop blaming the outside world, but fix yourown bugs asap. Looking forward to the next update. Thumbs downs. Jeroen Onderdelinden

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator
    edited August 2016

    @jeroentsjiek  Sorry to hear you're having problems. You didn't mention what video card you're using but given the specs you did list I'm guessing you have a workstation card like a Quadro and if that's the case then that's the problem. HitFilm only supports gaming GPU's not workstation GPU's

    Secondarily you mentioned trying to proxy a 7GB MP4 file. I don't care what NLE you use or what hardware you have you're going to save yourself a lot of frustration  by transcoding to an intermediate like DNxHD or ProRes first.  (Avid will force a transcode at some point) The HitFilm proxy system creates huge files and is still a transcoding step that takes time and creates huge files no matter how you look at it so you might as well transcode out of the gate. 

  • Thanks for the prompt reply Aladdin4d.

    Your guessed it right, Quadro K4200. which supports the same platforms as G9s, DirectX9 or above etc. 

    http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=627&gid2=198&compare=quadro-4000-vs-geforce-9800-gt

    Whatever, you are formally right, Hitfilm's site mentions G9's only.... So I then I'll need to go for Adobe Premiere, what a mess, my stupid fault.  Any chance for me to get at least a refund of the $299 I paid y-day for the upgrade to Hitfilm 4 ? 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @jeroentsjiek you'll need to contact support for that. 

    http://hitfilm.com/questions/submit

    It's the weekend. They might not get back to you till Mon (UK time). 

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator
    edited August 2016

    @jeroentsjiek I'm pretty sure somebody else was recently able to get a refund because of the same situation, having a workstation GPU. Unfortunately it's the weekend so you won't get a response before Monday. HitFilm Support.

    Side note - Given the age/generation of your GPU unless you're running something that absolutely won't work right without a Quadro any current gen gaming card is going to be a massive increase in GPU performance even in applications that usually prefer workstation cards. A Radeon RX 480 is going to be $200 - $260 (4 and 8 GB versions) and a GTX 1060 is right at $300 (6 GB). Pick one then come back and try HitFilm 4 Express for free to see if it's to your liking.

  • Not sure, Alladdin4d. K4200 was released exactly 2 yrs ago, and is a hardware upgrade, including Kepler, so state-of-the-art. NVidia's gaming cards are basically workstation cards with certain features disabled by the firmware, resulting in a lower price and priority to framerate above textures, shading, rendering. Apart from the anyhow high speed of this card, the framerate priority is not relevant for generating proxies in Hitfilm and certainly not for letting Hitfilm crash, which is my problem with Hitfilm. I'd rather not buy another card and bump my head again. So yes I would be grateful for a refund instead, if that is possible. Really sad, as I liked the software and not in the least the supportive tutorials etc, but I lost faith. Sorry.

  • @jeroentsjiek ;

    "NVidia's gaming cards are basically workstation cards with certain features disabled by the firmware"

    Hate to sound argumentative here but in the case of your card it's pretty much the exact opposite. It is a Kepler, GK104, the very first Kepler, which started out life as the Geforce 660 - 680 over 4 years ago, We're now three generations of GPU's and two full generations of architectures past that. 

    If you need a Quadro then by all means stick with it, it's not a bad workstation card but if you don't.........

  • Being argumentive is always appreciated and sure sounds convincing. But even if it is performance, it should not lead to crashing for rendering a proxy. It must be something else as well, no? I am reluctant to buying a second card now without being sure it will not crash again. Perhaps the Xeon E5-1650v3 is the problem, who knows.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Quick question. GPU drivers are current? 

  • Yes, they are indeed. I did a full check on all drivers.

  • BTW I noticed that Hitfilm uses only one core (I think it was nr.8) when rendering a proxy. But for exporting it uses much more. Vegas uses > 6 cores, though not evenly, while Mercalli uses all 12 with a smashing load of 75-90% of all of them. Not sure it helps you, just mentioning it.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited August 2016

    I think Hitfilm is using CPU for video decode/encode, and particle physics calculations, with the GPU handling all render tasks. Having only one core on a proxy wouldn't surprise me as that's a background operation, so other cores would, I guess, be left free for foreground editing as the proxy is churning away. 

    Now, Hitfilm is also doing mostly Open GL--the design logic here being compatibility with a wider range of cards. Since Hitfilm started off aiming for the YouTube filmmaker it does make a fair amount of logic (let's get real--After Effects is king of layer-based compositing in high-end studios, and it's not getting dethroned anytime soon...)

    I'm not that up on hardware, @Aladdin4d is much more knowledgeable than I, there, but perusing the Nvidia docs here:  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html&ved=0ahUKEwigr_zflq_OAhULxWMKHVCxBgsQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNESkCnpBGLD_XkAyUuFJ4Ky6W-D_g

    It seems that the OpenGl in the workstation cards is intended more for overlays and supplemental while the HW rendering is doing the heavy lifting (pages 5 and 6). 

    Now, a gaming card is going to use more OpenGL calls unless a game dev is specifically writing for CUDA. 

    So, my inexpert opinion is that this is the basis for the relatively low performance of the workstation card. 

    jeroentsjiek this isn't helping you, of course, but it never hurts to discuss underlying design logic. There are actual reasons why things were coded as they are, and not just sloppy design. Optimization for workstation cards is in the wishlist, but it's probably low priority given that probably 90% or more of the user base is on Express, and a huge percentage of them are running Intel HD 4000's or old and slow GPUs!  (Sometimes you get the person insisting they have a really great computer, and it turns out to be an i3 from 2012 with no discrete GPU and 4GB of RAM with Windows 10...aka, crap.) 

  • Dear Triem123, Realay big thanks for taking the time for clarification. Very much appreciated and 4 sure interesting :). It makes the point that a workstation card can have lower performance with non-CUDA games (most of them). I fully understand the choice on coding. But still, why would it crash in case of larger files (I tried it several times)?

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator
    edited August 2016

    @Triem23 @jeroentsjiek  Here's the deal with workstation GPU's - The stock implementations are in a sense, incomplete and it's up to the applications that use them to finish the implementation. Having a workstation GPU with up date drivers is great that means Windows can display a desktop but before you can do much of anything else (reliably) you need an application with what boils down to a custom GPU driver to pick up where the stock GPU drivers leave off. A workstation GPU that's certified to work with an application means there is custom driver just for that application. If you're old enough to remember the early days of PC's and programs like AutoCAD and Lotus 1-2-3 this will sound familiar. If you wanted to use a display adapter other than a CGA or MDA card the application had  to supply the drivers to do it. 

    One obvious example of the difference would be in precision. An app like HitFilm doing something OpenGL-ish with a gaming card already knows what level the precision is going to be and doesn't worry about it. A workstation GPU on the other has no idea what you precision you want. That's something that's up to the application vendor to specify and handle however it needs to be handled. HitFilm does something and doesn't get anything back from the GPU because it didn't specify what it was expecting in return or the GPU returns double precision values that HitFilm can't handle. Either way you get a crash. Likewise SolidWorks running on a gaming GPU does something expecting a double precision response and gets back single precision instead. Crash. I'm not saying this is what's going on mind you, it's just an example.

    Now take trying to make a proxy. It will be primarily CPU bound but even if you aren't doing anything else to the clip the GPU is still going to be involved for anti-aliasing at least. Standard fare for a gaming GPU but for a workstation GPU? Probably not. It's not that it can't do it because it obviously can but it probably does need the host application to finish the implementation. Reason being it's better for a game to just do an API call while a workstation level app will want the flexibility of being able to run custom anti-aliasing routines. A workstation GPU is designed to let you do that. Trying it with a gaming GPU is probably an exercise in frustration. 

  • Fully understood and clear. Thank you very much for these extensive clarifications Aladdin4d and Triem23. Have a nice day ! 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Aladdin4d thanks--that clarifies a lot for me. :-)

    jeroentsjiek so, now we know what's going on. Unfortunately, that still doesn't help you with your software issues, so, if you still feel the need to go for the refund, we're certain staff will take care of you. If at some point you get a different or secondary machine with a more "gamery" card, come back and give Hitfilm another look. It really is a great bit of kit (fantastic for VFX, less so as an editor)--and Aladdin and I aren't staff, we're not paid--we're HItfilm users and fans ourselves.

  •  Sorry did not know you weren't staff :) I think I will wait until Vegas comes with its upgrade in September, (I use Vegas+Hitfilm for not heavy stuff on a laptop) and based on that decide to either continue with Vegas+Hitfilm+additional gaming GPU or switch to Adobe. Will be a difficult one ! :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Hey, you know Magix is doing a "New User" thing with a $199 Vegas Pro 13 and a free upgrade to 14, yes? I'm a Vegas 13 Pro user myself (Been on Vegas since 1.0), and I'm ASSUMING that existing Pro 13 users will get a $199 upgrade to 14, but I'm tempted to just pick up another license for 13 and know I'm covered...

    FWIW, here's my take on a Vegas/Hitfilm combo vs Premiere/AE. (I also have Premiere/AE, but I'm parked on CS 6):

    For the way I think and work, Vegas is the superior editor. It doesn't have the raw power of Premiere, but the SPEED of the Vegas workflow is second to none. The bottom line for me is that I'm 4 to 6 times faster in Vegas than Premiere, Avid or FCPX--I'll use those if the client requires it, but if client doesn't care about the tool, just the results, then I'm in Vegas.

    Hitfilm Pro is the odd duck VFX/Compositor. In many ways it's less powerful than After Effects, but, with it's 3D model import features and fantastic particle engine, you have to put another $700 into your AE setup for Element 3D and Trapcode Particular (both amazing) to do what Hitfilm does out of the box. The Hitfilm/Vegas integration is similar to the Premiere/AE integration (although with Vegas 13 the integration is "broken." This problem was at the Sony end. They didn't change the few lines of code needed to patch the issue, and HF forum member Palacono has a workaround that fixes the integration. Hopfully, Magix will address this.).

    The ultimate advantage of the Vegas/HF combo vs Premiere/AE is the cost factor, and own vs rent. Vegas/HF is just a less expensive option (especially if you need E3D or Particular). You're getting 80-85% of the power at less than half the price. Of course, with Vegas/HF you can run that software for as long as you have a PC that will run whichever version you have. You might buy once and run that version for five-seven years! Adobe's subscription model has the huge caveat of, if you stop paying the subscription, your software stops working. I just don't want to "DRM" my own work. This is why I've parked Adobe at CS 6 and shifted my VFX work to Hitfilm, except when I NEED to go to AE... Which isn't happening often. Pretty much I'm only needing AE for Warp Stabilization, Liquify and Puppet Warp work.

    Hitfilm's biggest true issues right now, if you're a working video person are the lack of more export formats (This is all about license fees...) and inbuilt scopes. Right now NewBlue has an OpenFX plug in scopes option that runs in Hitfilm, but we're all hoping that Hitfilm will get proper scopes soon.

    Most of my Hitfilm complaints would be on the Editor side, but I'm in Vegas for that. ;-)

    Of course, buying Hitfilm Pro also gives you Ignite, which takes a good 140 or so of the Hitfilm filters and brings them to Vegas, Premiere, AE, Resolve, FCPX, Motion, etc. Many of these effects will be duplicates of things already in your software, but, what's nice here is that the Ignite license will run on all compatible hosts on the computer--unlike, say, my BCC, which only runs in Vegas. This is great if you work on projects across multiple packages, since using the HF plug-ins in each package is going to help insure a nice consistent look!

    Adobe has EARNED its market dominance, but a Hitfilm/Vegas combo is powerful.

    Oh, if you're a Vegas Pro user already, and you're NOT using any of what I'm about to mention, you should check out Vegasaur, Ultimate S4 Pro and/or Excalibur for Vegas. All three are script-based Vegas plug-ins that can automate a hell of a lot of basic editing tasks. All three have certain features in common, as well as each having it's own unique tools. I personally use Vegasaur and Ultimate S. Ultimate S is a superset of the Vegas Production Assistant (or Production Assistant is a cut-down version of Ultimate S, to be accurate), so if you got that in a bundle you can see some of what Ultimate S does.

    You're not the first person tho mistake @Aladdin4d or I for Staff. We were getting that even BEFORE we got our shiny new Moderator badges last week. I think we were both surprised to log on and see them. :-)

  • @Triem23 I know I was surprised! I thought it was mistake and I'm still not quite convinced it isn't ;)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Aladdin4d I was literally online when they turned the badge on. I had just posted a response, and caught the badge out of the corner of my eye on the screen redraw. I spent a good 10 seconds scrolling, looking for the Staff response I'd missed before I realized I was the badge!

    jeroentsjiek, sorry we digressed a bit. If you hang around this forum, it's something you'll have to live with. We're a chatty (but friendly and helpful) forum. As a side note, I can think of another few users who also deserve moderator badges, but that's up to Staff...

  • WARNING to users of this forum: This particular post does not contain any useful content for users looking for answers on issues).

    Dear Triem123 and Aladdin4d,

    I agree on every single word you wrote about Vegas vs AE, except for the words on Vegasaur, Ultimate S4 Pro and/or Excalibur simply because.....mmmmh,....I didn't know these exist...... I'll check these out.

    Yes, it is the cost model. No doubt a $300 per annum AE is worth it, but the dependency...... No subscription, no play. I hate that. Being a Dutchman, working for years in unfree countries like Belarus and Russia made me paranoid. Hence my reluctance to switching to AE.

    I am on Vegas since version 8 if I am correct, and though not perfect, I like it. It is easy, quick results.  Through Vegas I bought Hitfilm (it was a package offer). So I will wait until the September upgrade, B4 deciding on a switch to AE. I'd feel really dumb if I buy a gaming GPU, upgrade to 4 and then find out in September that the Vegas Upgrade from its new owner, is not worth it.....If it is I'll need to find out what will be the best gaming card in town for me. If you have any ideas up to $600....;)  BTW, I just got confirmation from Hitfilm that I'll be refunded. Very kind.

    Whatever, dear Triem123 and Aladdin4, I am still very impressed by the replies you gave to my little problem. I never expected such knowledgeable replies from "volunteers". Amazing and HF should be grateful for such fans !!!. Thank you very much again. for sure I'll keep visiting this forum. I apologize for this "chatty" post, written after a....little vodka after a hard-days-work :). Thumbs up to you guys !!!! :) Warm greetings from Moscow.

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