Editing question

Hi guys and gals. I've been using Hitfilm for a while now, love it. I have also used Sony Vegas for a bit, along with power director and Windows Movie maker. I'm just curious what other people's opinions are on why not use hitfilm for all their video editing needs? Is it just preference or do you find that editing an hour plus movie has its limitations using hitfilm. Just curious. I've been using a little bit from each program but ultimately using power director to edit movies. I'm aggravated with that program for many reasons and not in love with Sony Vegas. If anyone cuts full movies using hitfilm, id like to hear your thoughts too. Thanks!

Comments

  • Hi Life, I started using Corel Video Studio that is very easy and low price range and now I only use HFU2 to edit all. Just the audio that I use Acoustica Std to equalize and edit it, but everything is done in HFU2 now.
    Maybe some people need more tools to create more easy transitions opr templates, but since I use to edit short movies and web series, its almost enough to me.
    HFU2 just need to add some grou tools and a better audio wave display (and a display for Composit shots also) and I think that many people will use it for almost everything.
    Just need to try and you will get your protocol to edit and I really like not to use many other softwares to the task, its smooth and faster.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Whenever this comes up in discussion, I always note that a lot of choice of NLE also comes down to personal workflow preferences.
    For example, you've said that you're "not in love" with Sony Vegas. For me, Vegas is my editor of choice, and I find myself very annoyed when I'm forced into working in Avid, Premiere or ESPECIALLY FCP. Not because Avid or Premiere are bad programs, but because core approaches in their workflows don't work as well for me, and they slow me down--when I'm paid per-project, not per-hour, the faster I can complete my project, the more money I'm making. If I'm getting $200 to insert lower thirds into an edit and it takes me two-three hours in Vegas and ten hours in Avid, I'm using VEGAS! (That's a real-world example, btw--I was hired to do some lower thirds/scoreboards for some basketball games--each game was taking me about 2.5 hours in Vegas. Another artist was taking 9-10 hours to do the same thing in Avid. We both got the same per-project fee, but I was making a lot more per-hour.)
    That said, I do more event video work than narrative film work. For me, Vegas's multicam tools and the scripting plug-in's Ultimate S and Vegasaur are essential for that kind of work. Hitfilm, lacking any kind of multicam, is just not the right tool for me to do my workhorse editing in. Additionally, Vegas has far more powerful audio editing than Hitfilm. Hitfilm adding multicam tools and improving it's audio editing (oh, and improved groupling) would certainly position it in a stronger position among editors. Of course, Hitfilm is, at the moment, primarily a VFX/Compositing tool that happens to have some editing features built in.
    Even for narrative work, I still do my workhorse editing in Vegas, using Hitfilm more as a shot generator (but being able to put a Hitfilm project directly in my Vegas timeline speeds up my video editing process, since I can see how my Hitfilm shots blend with everything else without committing to a render), but that's largely because, FOR ME, there's nothing faster to edit in that Vegas.
    But, yeah--NLE choice is still personal preference--I know Avid editors who DESPISE Vegas, because Vegas's workflow is almost the inverse of the Avid workflow. I know Vegas editors who DESPISE FCP because they hate it's workflow. To stay on FCP for a minute--not only do I do a lot of event video, I mix footage of different resolutions--I may have a rented 4K camera on a tripod to do crop/zooms in post to blow up that shot, while cutting between that and my 1080 cameras. In FCP I cannot do that at all--FCP doesn't let you mix footage of different resolutions on a single timeline. That single facet of FCP workflow means that FCP is, again, 100% non-useable for my workflow. Avid and Premiere are both wonderful editors, but both programs want video import in it's own format--which often means transcoding hours of footage before I can import and edit... And, with a three-camera multicam event, that means hours of transcoding,knowing that 2/3 of that footage isn't getting used. Vegas, on the other hand, cheerfully imports damn near any file format you toss it, transcoding on RENDER. This single change in workflow protocol, again, makes Vegas a better editor for my workflow.
    That said, FxHome's Simon Jones has stated on this forum that he's gotten so comfortable and fast in the Hitfilm workflow he now finds it odd to move into other NLE's.
    There's no reason why one can't do a one-hour/two hour movie in Hitfilm. It's editor may not have all the bells and whistles of Avid/FCP/Premiere/Vegas, but it has the tools to get the job done.
    One other workflow note: In Hollywood productions, films and TV shows aren't edited as a single project on a timeline--you create a different project for each scene/sequence, then next your project files into a final timeline later as you start assembling a final film from the scenes. That way, if we get near the end of the first edit, and discover that we're shortening (for example) scene 10 by 15 seconds, we open the scene 10 project, edit it, close it, then, on the final assembly timeline we just slide over the nested scene files, rather that making that change on a single timeline while trying to keep track of hundreds of other clips.
    For a Hitfilm workflow, you can do the same thing--build your scenes in individual projects--move the final scene edit into a composite shot, then, when you're doing your final assembly, you create a new project, import all your scenes and drag the scene-final composite shots onto your edit timeline for assembly.
    NOTE: If you DON'T know this, you can import an entire Hitfilm PROJECT into a second project. Tell Hitfilm you're importing a Hitfilm Composite shot, but select a full project instead! Hitfilm will even ask which composite shots from the imported project you want to bring in, and, if you select a Composite Shot that looks to another Composite Shot you forgot to tick, Hitfilm will grab that needed Composite Shot as well. Being able to import entire Hitfilm PROJECTS into other Hitfilm projects is a very powerful tool.
  • Great! never tried to import a whole project into another one in HFU;
    I agree its a perosnal choice, but for me its a money choice also, since I cant get the Vegas Pro doing what I do... maybe later I can think about this and afford th Sony solution with HFU integration, but for now its a simple matter of have or not money to expend in another NLE software or a new lens or any equipament. And I am really confortable editing in HFU now...
  • Editing, more than anything else, is definitely a comfort/preference thing. It's also often about whatever you used first. I still regularly use Premiere Pro, in large part because Premiere was the first NLE I ever used, way back in 2001.
    I tend to edit smaller projects in HitFilm - including every tutorial I've made since HitFilm 2's release - while larger projects I'll sometimes shift into Premiere Pro. For The Interview, I had a really interesting workflow combining Premiere for the main edit, HitFilm 2 Ultimate for the VFX shots and HitFilm Plugins for grading. It worked really nicely.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Editing, more than anything else, is definitely a comfort/preference thing. It's also often about whatever you used first. I still regularly use Premiere Pro, in large part because Premiere was the first NLE I ever used, way back in 2001.
    I tend to edit smaller projects in HitFilm - including every tutorial I've made since HitFilm 2's release - while larger projects I'll sometimes shift into Premiere Pro. For The Interview, I had a really interesting workflow combining Premiere for the main edit, HitFilm 2 Ultimate for the VFX shots and HitFilm Plugins for grading. It worked really nicely.

    Guess I get to be the exception to the rule: I started on Avid, then Premiere, THEN Vegas. Where I stayed. Although Premiere is very different in 2014 than 2001
  • Gentlemen, thanks for the replies. Ultimately, I find myself using two different NLE programs to create individual shots, then combine them. I am pretty comfortable with the work flow in HF, but as you have all said, it's all according to what you are used to. There are definitely certain aspects of Vegas, Windows Movie maker, Power Director, etc, that I like, but would prefer to use just one program for everything. I'm sure Hitfilm ultimate will continue to improve, taking into consideration many of the great suggestions from those on this site.

    You guys are awesome, thanks again. :)
  • Oh yes, we have many plans. ;)
  • Simon,
    I wouldn't ask for specifics ( unless you are willing), but can you give us an idea of a time frame and potential details of whats to come? Perhaps you can create a movie style trailer in HF of whats coming.. :)
    I'm sure there's a lot of people who would be excited to know. Thanks again and keep up the great work
  • I would LOVE to be able to do that, but I'd probably have my hands chopped off. :P
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Or worse... NOT your hands.
  • Hey, if you dont ask, you dont get... guys, while i have you on here.....................

    I bought a brand new high end computer for the purposes of editing and 3d work a month ago.  Recently, Hitfilm Ultimate, has been crashing on a regular basis when i am in the middle of an edit.
    Here are my computer stats and yes, everything is up to date- everything......
    Intel Core i7- 4820, 4 core 10 mb cache, overclocked up to 4.2 ghz
    16 gb quad channel ddr3 at 1600
    NVIDIA 760Ti 2 bg GDDR5 ( fully updated)
    64 bit machine Windows 7 home premium
    After the non responsive  crash, HF says would you like to create a dump file with optional email and name, of what occurred.. Well, that became non responsive too and indicated that it could not create a dump file.
    Ive restarted the computer a few times, restarted hitfilm a few times.  Hitfilm starts up sometimes, and lets me work for a bit. Other times, it wont let me start without it crashing right away... This has all occurred in the last week.  HitFilm is also sluggish while scrolling thru NLE time line, not responsive as i think it should be, given the machine and GPU it is running on.. Any help would be appreciated.  Any thoughts?  I already posted a ticket for support..
  • 1st thought: do not overclock.
  • appreciate that.. the over clocking is done automatically via the Alienware Aurora r-4... its not me overclocking it.. the processor runs at 3.7 or 3.9, something like that.. the overclocking occurs when playing high end games which i dontt play.. 
  • Overclocking shouldn't be an issue, as long as your processor is properly cooled.  What kind of storage media do you have?  HDD/SSD?  Is it occurring when you don't have anything open in HF, or only when you have media present on the timeline?  If it's happening when you have a loaded up project file, check and see how much of your ram it's using, since I used to run out when I only had 16GB of ram.
    Even though you're not playing games, I can imagine any Alienware software that modifies settings like that potentially causing problems as well.  See if disabling any of that helps.
  • I will look into that, thanks. The crashes occur when working with footage in time line. I am getting the impression that the crashes are a result of codec issues but I can't say that for sure..
  • appreciate that.. the over clocking is done automatically via the Alienware Aurora r-4... its not me overclocking it.. the processor runs at 3.7 or 3.9, something like that.. the overclocking occurs when playing high end games which i dontt play.. 


    I understood that crashes occur only  on your new setup (and you didn't have problems on an old machine). I look at the other thread and it seems that it is not true.
    But anyway, running system on standard settings costs nothing and is fast, so worth to check anyway :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Couple more thoughts--if your footage is in Quicktime Format, then QT for Windows is only 32-bit, and will crash if you give it more than 4GB of footage. This is very possible with an hour film.
    If your footage is mp4, then that's adding overhead to your computer--mp4 is a format intended for final output, not for editing, and, if you used another NLE or a free utility like MPEG STREAMCLIP to convert your mp4's to Avid DNxHD, you'll make the edit easier for your computer, which might help with the crashing issues.
  • That's not entirely accurate, Triem - QT for Windows has issues if it needs to decompress more than 4GB of footage at a time.  If your footage is in a proper editing codec, even though the files are larger, Quicktime can handle more of it, because the way it gets decompressed is totally different.  I don't know all the details of it, but I know that if quantity X of .mov footage encoded with H.264 causes QT to crash, and you convert all that footage to DNxHD, then Quicktime can handle it fine, even though the total file size of the footage is much larger.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Axel, thank you for the correction. :-)
    Perhaps the difference is because of the additional memory required by the computer to decompress the mp4 inter-frame codec? Since the PC is taking the (rare) I-frame and having to interpolate the P and B frames, I can see that being more memory intensive. With the Intra-frame DnxHD codec, more of the overhead is coming from reading the file and less from holding frames in memory to decompress? I'm guessing here, but that sounds like it should be about right, yes?
  • Yeah, I think it is something along those lines.  Essentially, no matter what codec is used in the file, the software has to decompress the frame before it can display it.  And no matter what codec is used, the decompressed frame will be the same size.  So, in an intra-frame codec, where each frame is compressed separately, you will use less memory to display any given bit of footage than with an inter-frame codec, where to display one frame you have to decompress 30 frames.  That's how I understand it, but I'm not familiar enough with the technicals of it to say for certain.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    Well, until/unless someone more technically knowledgeable than us in the ins and outs of codecs, let's go with the "needs more RAM to decompress mp4/inter-frame codecs" as the "official" hypothesis. It fits the facts nicely enough where that's really likely what it is. :-)
    Hopefully this discussion is helpful for Life_Leadership.
  • Gentlemen ,

    Its possible they my project kept crashing for this very reason. I started another project and so far, no crashes.. Let's hope and see how it goes. Thanks for all the info.

    Ben

  • Hey guys, dumb question. Based your recommendation, I downloaded a codec pack to my computer and installed it as directed.. What next?

    Ben
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited August 2014
    For Hitfilm that does nothing, since Hitfilm only exports a limited range of codecs. You have any other NLE's, Ben? Otherwise, a codec pack might help playing or IMPORTING certain video formats, in which case your video player should automatically see the codecs.
    Now, using Vegas Pro as my example, when setting up a render, with certain formats (avi, mov) I. Would have a drop-down menu to choose a codec--in the case of mov, I would select "QuickTime Animation" or "DNxHD," as my codec, depending on if I need an alpha channel.
  • Got it, thanks.

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