EXPORT FOR BROADCAST?

Hi-

Please forgive the newbee-ness of this query but am hoping to find a solid answer to my question so I can purchase this wonderfully laid out software.

In a nutshell, I'm more of a creator than an editor an am often called upon to do quick ads in politics specifically. Believe it or not, I use a program called Proshow Producer to create these ads and then output a high quality mp4 to then insert into Vegas 13. From there, I render using an after installed Avid DNxHD codec that the broadcast and cable stations seem to be able to use okay. I've seen some on TV and they look just fine.

I use that Proshow producer because I've not been able to find a subscription-less software that I find easy (or best said) enjoyable way to get my ideas flowing......UNTIL TRYING HITFILM. I love the approach.

With that said, are there options are available for export for broadcast that are inherent in the software or would I still have to do the Avid process through Vegas as mentioned above? 

Again, please forgive the newbee-ness of my query. After experimenting with a number of video software trials, something just "clicks" and feels right with Hitfilm Pro 2017.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions most appreciated and I thank you for your time! 

Best regards, Bob

Comments

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    No worries, Bob.

    Now, I ALSO have to prep things for broadcast that have been animated in Hitfilm. And, Vegas is my primary editor.

    Check with your broadcast engineer and see if he can take Cineform, in which case that's your best export format for delivery. I've also had stations that would take mp4, but, in that case, I was exporting something like 100/150mbps.

    Since Hitfilm doesn't have DNxHD output, if you really, really, really have to have DNxHD, then you'll still need to transcode through Vegas. If you're doing the entire project in Hitfilm, including your audio mix, then Cineform is still your best output format from Hitfilm. If you're doing video-only and someone else is doing audio, or if you'll continue to mix audio in Vegas (and Vegas's audio tools are far superior to Hitfilm's), then consider PNG image sequences. Those are lossless and will hold more detail than Cineform, which will give you maximum image quality when transcoding from Vegas.

    Consider upgrading your Vegas to version 14. Right now Magix is having a 40% off sale on Vegas upgrades. 14 is a lot more stable than 13, and 14 has the advantage of having integration with Hitfilm. (Technically Vegas 13 has Hitfilm integration, but because of issues at Sony's end it never worked correctly. @Palacono has the super secret hack to enable Vegas 13/Hitfilm integration. Palacono, have you tested that in Hitfilm 2017?). This integration would let you right-click a media clip on a Vegas timeline, select "Add Hitfilm Effect" and send the clip to Hitfilm. Save the clip out of Hitfilm return to Vegas and you'll find the media has been replaced with the Hitfilm project right on your Vegas timeline. Or, you can load Hitfilm Projects into Vegas as media. Note that this integration is reading Hitfilm's Editor Timeline, not any Composite Shots, so plan correctly.

    The caveat on Vegas 14 is due to the way Sony did certain system calls, some plugins-especially script based-from earlier versions don't work in 14. Vegasaur, Excalibur and Ultimate S have been upgraded to work in 14. Other scripts have to be edited. I don't remember the exact thing that needs to be changed, so I'll try to remember to find it later. Basically there's a script call for "Sony.Vegas" that has to change to something like "Vegas.ofx" or "Vegas.Pro."

    I'm not certain how your experience with Vegas has been, but, for my workflow I love keeping Vegas as my primary editor and Hitfilm as my compositing and animation powerhouse. I'll use Hitfilm to create awesome shots, then use Vegas for final assembly and audio edits.

  • @Triem23 I didn't try getting HFE (or Pro) 2017 to work with Vegas/Movie Studio 13, but I assume it does as I'm using HFExpress 2017 with Vegas Movie Studio 14 and integration is only 'officially' supposed to work with Vegas Pro 14 and Hitfilm Pro 2017.  But as the Pro versions are working on the same framework as the non-pro versions and neither Sony/Magix or Hitfilm have gone out of their way to prevent it happening: Integration works fine.

    All the work is done at Hitfilm's end. It's their DLL file that deals with what  gets launched. Never understood what Sony were supposed to do because... they didn't write that bit. All they do is go: "Hello, I've found a .hfp file, anyone want to deal with that?" and hand it off to any passing DLL that says "Yes".

    But, as it's a little more convoluted when I want to swap back and forth between versions (now there are several of each program): I'd say the easiest route is: buy Vegas Pro 14, which will just work.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Palacono Hitfilm always daid it was Sony's glitch, and, since your solution was to basically rename the more recent Vegas to be Hitfilm 2, I'm still inclined to blame Sony... Especially as the gang at Madison said, on the record, there were Vegas 13 updates never released and development on 14 halted while Sony decided on whether to kill the line or sell it off. I continue to blame Sony for that snafu and believe FXHOME when they say their DLLs were correct. ;-) 

  • edited June 22

     @Triem23 actually I remembered it slightly wrongly. I just looked again and Sony/Magix hand off the .HFP file to whatever is referred to in a HitFilm.fio2007-config file which in turn points to the relevant Hitfilm .dll in whatever folder/version of Hitfilm you want to be launched.  It's by swapping around where it points that I launch different versions of Hitfilm.

    But, you can stick anything in there. When I was experimenting ages ago, I pointed it at Notepad.exe and it open up the .hfp files in that when you did 'Add Hitfilm Effect' in Movie Studio. Pointless, but shows that whoever creates that config file has control over what happens next.

    Maybe its not the done thing to insert files in some other company's Product folder, but the Hitfilm installer could put the relevant config file in the Sony/Magix Vegas program folder and it would work. That's what I'm doing, but maybe if it's 'not allowed' then that's where it all stalled 'officially'.

  • Triem-

    Thanks so much for the quick and detailed reply. Some, a tickle over my head without re-checking meaning of some jargon but I get the gist of what you're saying.     (Palacono, thanks for your comments as well)

    I don't have a problem having to export a final ad from HitFilm and taking it over to Vegas for rendering to that Avid codec as mentioned. BUT... with that said, what export would you think best out of HFPro2017 is best to use? You mentioned Cineform. Will Vegas accept that?  (In case some of the broadcast or cable folks don't accept Cineform?)

    Please bear in mind, the stuff I do is pretty elementary editing-wise but I learned long ago that it's the IDEA that's KEY in any ad medium and as long as I can at least come close to what I envision, and fast, then I'm a happy camper.  As far as audio goes, I use Sampltiude ProX and have been doing multitrack audio work since the analog late 70's.  So, in essence I would mostly be using pre-recorded/mixed mulitrack audio from Samplitude.

    People have laughed when I told them I did this ad or that ad, that they reallly liked, in Proshow Producer but for some reason, the method used just works for me. Ashame it's just 32 bits and trying at times.  When I tried HF, I found a similar comfort zone and started trying and doing things without even reading a help file.  SO...if it can work for broadcast, ala the method above, I'm sold.

    Any other thoughts you may have for setting-up the final output from HF to take to Vegas....MOST WELCOMED and very much appreciated!

    Thanks, Bob

     

     

     

     

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Palacono while easy to do, as you said, you pretty much don't get to make direct changes to anyone else's file structure and code base. 

  • Never understood what Sony were supposed to do because... they didn't write that bit. - @Palacono

    Yes they did. Vegas is responsible for launching the correct version of HitFilm, which has to correspond to the version of HitFilm used in the import DLL.

    Using Vegas 13 with HF4/2017 was never supported because of timing issues really (it was during the transition between Sony and MAGIX) and when we agreed with MAGIX to continue supporting the HF/Vegas integration, Vegas 14 was about to be released.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited June 22

    Bob, 

    Vegas 13 should be able to read Cineform. A "Medium" output setting should be fine for broadcast. 

    Hitfilm has native Cineform output, but Vegas needs the codec. Just download and install GoPro Studio (it's free) and Vegas will be good to go. 

    I understand Hitfilm "clicking." My first play at Hitfilm was a shot I did in 45 minutes. It took longer in Ae and Boris FX (both of which I'd been using for years)... That was when I knew Hitfilm was going to be my new favorite program. :) 

    @Palacono I'm totally pretty petty  enough to say "told ya," re: @CedricBonnier ;

  • @Triem23 I've seen your videos: you're not that pretty. ;)

  • Excellent Triem and thank you for the tip!

    Have a project coming up this summer for which the tracker tools will be indespensible.  

    I thank you again for your help!

    Bob

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Palacono touche. ;-)

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

    @bhp2000 It hasn't been mentioned yet but Vegas 14 Pro has native ProRes import/export support, something extremely rare in the Windows world. Not even Adobe products can export ProRes on Windows. I'm told there are broadcasters that won't accept ProRes but I haven't come across one yet. You could use the HitFilm integration to have Vegas render to ProRes or go with an image sequence rendered from HitFilm or just go with Cineform across the board. Cineform adoption is on the rise now that Adobe has native support for it so there's a very good chance your broadcaster will accept it.

    I have to say I'd never laugh at someone for using ProShow Producer. I've come across it a few times over the years and always thought it was a nice tool. There's a lot to be said for a tool that does something extremely well and even though I haven't used it much ProShow Producer definitely seems to be the kind of tool that gets out of your way and let's you get on with actually doing something rather than fighting with the software.

  • Aladdin4d-

    Thanks for that info!  Now, to tell the wife..."Okay so, I'm going to buy Hitfilm Pro and ah, yeah, a couple add-on packs for it too and oh yeah, almost forgot...I've gotta update my version of Vegas Pro so I can..."

    Shouldn't be a problem after the initial, "you need MORE toys!?!?...yadda yadda. (See, after 35 years of marriage and having once been a certified equipment junkie in the multitrack analog world, my old lines just don't work anymore. Ergo, I just come right out with it and face the music. '-)  Then, after a day or so of acting glum, she usually gives her blessing. A little cocktail interaction never hurts either. :)

    You're right Aladdin, having had to learn a Zillion softwares to accomodate work in print, web, radio, tv etc etc...I've had to learn the hard way about finding things that just work, are simple to kinda master and don't interrupt the creative process. Easier said than done nowadays.  So yes, Proshow, even with its downsides just works. I can see this Software as being similar in the "feels right" world for the kind of things I do.

    Well, sorry for the rambling but thanks for your thoughts!

    Bob

  • I have not read all the replies and I am sure they are excellent.  However, since I use Hitfilm 2017 Pro (and all versions before it) for broadcast commercials and shows, I can safely tell you that you can 100% use Hitfilm Pro for anything broadcast.

    Mike

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