[Quirk] Ignite Express 2017 removed all HF3 Pro Plugins.

edited June 23 in Ignite Support

Posting this here as @Ady isn't answering his emails. @CedricBonnier has been active here lately, so: tag. :)

I have HF3Pro and the Hitfilm v3 Plugins installed in Sony/Magix Movie Studio 12,13,14.

As some of the plugins are v1.0 I thought I'd see if the newer ones in Ignite Express were better/had more options and also have access to a few newer ones, like LightSwords.

All but the 7 plugins that came (almost) Pre-installed with Sony/Magix (actually as a small plugin pack) are now gone. The Video FX list shows the plugins as "Ignite somename", but in the Plugin Chooser, selected from the clip, the names still show as  'Hitfilm somename' with apparently the Hitfilm Effects in them. But, if they're added to the clip, they show as "Ignite somename".

Also some of the Hitfilm folders are entirely empty, Hitfilm Channel, Hitfilm Video Cleanup, as well as all the others being severely under populated. Ignoring the 7 that came with Sony, there are now only 81 Hitfilm/Ignite Effects installed.

So, I thought I'd just reinstall the HF3 Plugins again, but they refuse to install, saying there is a newer version already there.

I'll uninstall Ignite Express and see if I can reinstall the HF3 Plugins, but I'd hoped that Ignite Express would either sit alongside the original Effects, so I could compare/contrast, or only Replace/Update those that were new/present in Ignite Express.

Instead, it seems to have removed all effects that would have been in Ignite Pro, then only put back the Express subset.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/pickaname2/Ignite 1.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/pickaname2/Ignite 2.jpg

Edit by Cedric: Removed "[BUG]" in the title as it is not one. Moved thread to Ignite Support category.

Comments

  • @Palacono This is not a bug, it is the expected behaviour. Ignite installer removes all previous versions of the HitFilm Plugins / HitFilm Ignite / Ignite 1.0 before installing. The decision to do this was made because some hosts do not select the correct version of the plugins if multiple are installed. Lots of plugin hosts do not implement the OFX specification correctly or have an old version implemented which makes things harder. Taking this into consideration we decided that we would make the installer uninstall any previous version of the plugins.

    This wasn't an issue before Ignite Express because if you had an old version of the plugins, you would not lose any plugins by uninstalling the old version and installing the new version. For people that have the Ignite plugins (HF4), this is not an issue either as it contains all plugins that are in Ignite Express.

    Manually uninstalling the current version of the plugins (Ignite Express in your case) and installing the HitFilm Plugins (HF3) is the correct procedure. Have a look, pick which version you want to use and install it (after removing any other version).

    If you want to keep them side by side, nothing is preventing you from manually copying the plugins and putting them in your OFX folder but this is unsupported territory so you might encounter issues doing that.

  • edited June 17

     @CedricBonnier Expected by whom?  It might not be perceived as a bug at your end, but a warning: "This will uninstall all previous Hitfilm Plugins (except the 7 that are evidently immune)" would have been useful, because I would have simply not installed them.

    Can't you check the individual hosts anyway? To remove perfectly working plugins from Sony/Magix with no warning because some other program might not work, is not helpful; especially as some got left behind anyway.

    I'll have a delve manually and see what I can do to reinstate/combine them, but if nothing else: are they Ignite or Hitfilm plugins and could the names be consistent in all the places they're displayed?

    Edit: Actually you didn't even uninstall them. They're all still there in Programs, their folders and the Registry. You just killed them.

    And there is no uninstaller for Ignite Express in the usual 'Control Panel> Programs' place. Only option is the Installer is also an Uninstaller.  So if you deleted it after installation you have to download it again to Uninstall the plugins.  

    BTW, the one plugin I was hoping had been improved - Quad Warp - hasn't been. It still has Position X/Y that only goes from 0.00 to 1.00 which is only 100 positions, which isn't very useful for accurate placement in HD: 1920, or 4k:3840.

    While you can type in a third decimal value - that's not displayed - for each coordinate individually, you can only change one of them because when you change the other the first 'forgets' the third digit and resets its position to one of 0.00 to 1.00. This makes it impossible to place a Quad Warp accurately.

    Is this a limitation of the Sony/Magix host because BCC Wire Removal (8.1) works in a similar way?

    In that it's not as much of an issue because the removal mask is quite wide, so doesn't need to be pixel accurate. Plus that's an old plugin that's probably from Pre-HD days, but Quad Warp isn't.

  • edited June 17

     OK, Ignite Express is uninstalled and Hitfilm Pro 3 Plugins are back in Sony/Magix Movie Studios 12,13,14.

    It's a shame that new users get to use the new plugins, and extras like the new Lightswords, but existing older users' only option is to update to Ignite Pro 2017 to avoid losing their existing plugins. Plus, the old plugins are...old, so any fixes/improvements made in the last 2 years are unavailable.

    BTW the 7 plugins that survived the Ignite 'Purge' seem to be represented in the Registry as 'HitfilmOFXVegas' rather than just 'HitfilmOFX'.

  • Thanks for this thread, Palacono. I had the exact same issue. I've got the Pro 3 plugins back in Vegas 14 now, but have lost them in After Effects. A warning from HitFilm would definitely have been nice. Or the ability to use both new and old plugins.

  • Thanks for the feedback, we will add a message to the installer.

    are they Ignite or Hitfilm plugins and could the names be consistent in all the places they're displayed?

    All the plugins that shipped with HitFilm 3 are HitFilm plugins. They all got renamed to Ignite when HitFilm 4 came out. Since HitFilm 2017, there is Ignite Express and Ignite Pro. I know this could be confusing but if you only want one name displayed in your host then make sure you only have one version installed.

    And there is no uninstaller for Ignite Express in the usual 'Control Panel> Programs' place. Only option is the Installer is also an Uninstaller.  So if you deleted it after installation you have to download it again to Uninstall the plugins.

    There is an uninstaller for Ignite Express. It works just like HitFilm: after installing the product, it can be accessed via the controls panel even if you remove the installer.

    It's a shame that new users get to use the new plugins, and extras like the new Lightswords, but existing older users' only option is to update to Ignite Pro 2017 to avoid losing their existing plugins.

    We will investigate if there is something that we can do that works for everyone. Once again, this is not a simple problem to solve.

    BTW the 7 plugins that survived the Ignite 'Purge' seem to be represented in the Registry as 'HitfilmOFXVegas' rather than just 'HitfilmOFX'.

    Thanks, I'll log that so we can have a look later.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @CedricBonnier I bet those 7 are the plug-ins built into Vegas. Check with them. Probably their system call to differentiate them from your packs. I have duplicates on my system too. 

  • @Triem23 I installed the Hitfilm Toolkit that came with Magix Vegas Movie Studio 14 yesterday.

    It has 20 more plugins to add to the 7 that were in the previous mini plugin pack for SMS12, and they're fine working alongside the HF3Pro plugins I reinstalled after I got Ignite out of the way.

    It means I have two versions of Zoom Blur for example. v1.0 and v1.2, so I'll check out the differences/improvement in the later versions.

    It's what I expected to be able to do with Ignite's plugins. After a system backup I'll reinstall Ignite Express and see what it does this time. Maybe it'll show up in Control Panel>Programs this time. If not, I'll try a reboot. :)

  • edited 3:19PM

     OK, so this is not a Bug, its a Quirk. :)

    Bearing in mind I was installing into Magix's Vegas Movie Studio 14, not Vegas Pro 14 - which according to Gary R. in charge of the Project over at Magix (was Sony), shouldn't make any difference - but Hitfilm technically have half an 'out' there. Although all the plugins work, have worked before and FXHome supply some for Vegas Movie Studio 14.

    Before I started I also tried out the integration (which also technically is not supported with Movie Studio 14, but was before with SMSP12, but anyway....) and I found the audio was 3/4 silent, with just the end 1/4 still audible after a loud pop. That was with HFPro 2017 Update #5, so I updated to see if that had been fixed... and Update #6 had no audio at all on its integrated clips.

    Not sure if that was a fix or a bigger problem, because since making the video I tried again with SMSP12 and the HF3Pro integration and that also has no audio, so maybe it always did that? Or me forcing integration on versions that didn't support it previously and the 'not officially' supported VMSP 14 and HFPro2017 mixture (despite etc.) is the reason, and maybe it works with Vegas Pro 14 and HFPro2017 just fine? Or it  was always only supposed to be about the video and that's why it 'shares' the audio with the original clip?

    As the original audio is still there in Movie Studio, it's no biggie anyway.

    But, that's not the point of the 'Quirk' video anyway. Ignite kills off the HF3Pro plugins, but now I found that:

    a) Ignite Express is in Control Panel>Programs - so maybe I didn't spot it before, or having been installed a second time: whatever made it not visible before is not happening?

    b) I also managed to reinstall the Hitfilm 3 Pro plugins over the top of Ignite, with no "you can't do that because a later version is installed" message. It's possible/highly likely I tried to install an older version of them before.

    That means that I now have all the Plugins: the early pack of 7, the Hitfilm Toolkit, HF3Pro plugins and Ignite Express. But which name they display where is a bit mixed up, and this time I got 88 Ignite Plugins, instead of the 81 I got last install. Since then I've installed the Hitfilm Toolkit (20 plugins) , so whatever is already there might be having some effect on how many Ignite installs?

    Some plugins are only accessible from the Plugin list at the side and some only from the Plugin browser from a video clip.

    SMSP 12 displays different plugin lists to VMSP 14, and SMSP 12 is displaying duplicates of a few HF3Pro Plugins.  Oops, video is wrong about duplicates. Pro Skin Retoucher is also in the Hitfilm Toolkit, so it should be there twice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOgpwgTY7E

Sign in to comment

Leave a Comment