HitFilm Pro 2017... great for video\VFX, not so much for motion graphics :(

edited November 2016 in Filmmaking

I've been waiting for the new release of Hitfilm for ages, but unfortunately the new features completely miss the target for me:

  • No upgrade to the very basic text handling - still feels like an afterthought
  • No vector shape layers or vector handling of any kind it seems
  • No grading layers in Editor

A good upgrade for filmmakers maybe, but still just too far behind the Adobe curve for motion graphics, even with Creative Suite CS5 which I am still using, with almost nothing new in this area in Hitfilm 2017, so no purchase this time either.

Roll on Hitfilm 2018 - hope the new features include the motion graphics community next time round. Cash waiting ...

I hope the rest of you get something from it!

UPDATE: text handling

The text properties of AE are a good start: http://tinypic.com/r/m0m13/9

UPDATE2: Text handling

Also, the only way to set the size of a text box is by entering pixel dimensions. It needs to be scalable using selection handles.

Also, from memory as I've uninstalled the demo now, I can't remember if it was possible to change the font of a text layer without entering the text and selecting the text first. If so, this isn't great, and it should be possible to change the font of a text object via the Properties panel.

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Comments

  • I think the Boris text plug-ins are what Hitfilm looks to for advanced text. The original built-in text may or may not ever be expanded. Boris is pretty good, albeit a touch slow. The BCC stuff does have some vector shape features. Built-in shapes in the spline effect and an effect to work with EPS files.

    Sadly, Yes, the editor/editing is still weak, IMO. 

  • Sorry that Pro 2017 doesn't have the right feature set for you @craftycurate. Hopefully some of the updates to Pro coming in the next few months will be more to your liking and rest assured we are definitely putting a lot of energy in to the editor in the future. :)

  • @craftycurate One thing to note is that the Boris effects are not active in the demo so you will not see them or be able to play with them. Really, FxHome is not going to pay Boris for every demo of Hitfilm and Boris has obviously said no to FxHome about allowing the BCC stuff to be available in trial mode. A little bit of a catch 22.

    If you take a look at tutorials and such out there on BCC 10 3D objects and Title studio, etc, you can see what Hitfilm has in this regard. Title studio looks to be pretty darn good. Capable but clunky UI. Clunky at least compared to Newblue Titler Pro.

     

  • edited November 2016

    I never got the impression that Hitfilm was a web animation application though I have used Hitfilm Pro 3 for that to a limited extent with exporting out animations in ordered image format and putting them together for web based animations in other programs.   

    I have also used it for creating backgrounds or aspects for web pages though nothing in any of my completed projects are entirely one program including HitFilm.

    If you want an Adobe style web animation program this isn't it but if you are doing Youtube video's or something similar then HitFilm is great for that.  If you have a Mac there is a program http://tumult.com/hype/   which maybe more of what you are looking for.  There isn't really a Windows based program that comes close to Adobe's previous applications they abandoned for web animation.

    If you are good at creating your own animations by freehand style then Smith Micro's MOHO or Clip Studio Paint are good programs for creating animated GIF's and Smith Micro's Motion Artist software will allow you to create web animations via HTML5.

    Though After Effects for web animations doesn't exist yet for Windows.

  • Without exr buffer/aov support, HF can't really attract the tons of 3d users from maya, 3dmax, c4d, lw, etc, that render exr with buffers and comp on AE or fusion. Its not just the highend studios that use exr. Many small studios and freelance use exr who can be potential customers for HF.
    3 versions after HF2 still no exr, HF2017 still not a basic replacement for AE or fusion.

  • Idrankwhat I'm talking about motion graphics, not "web animation", if you mean HTML5\Flash style animation. There are plenty of solutions for that already. Also certainly not creating animated GIFs. 

    Animated vector elements are in play as per my OP, but the final render is raster not vector.

    It's just that HF bills itself as a motion graphics solution from the get go, but I just don't see how that stacks up at the moment. A great value video and VFX solution for sure, but not motion graphics at the moment.

    And BorisFX is great, but I'd want something much cleaner and simpler for animating flat vector text elements, whether in 2D or 3D.

    @JoshDavies I look forward to seeing what enhancements are in the pipeline in this regard!

     

  • edited November 2016

    Think Hitfilm4 pro version was always going to be a hard one to follow. Hitfilm5 is still a great package on its own. FBX animation import and second monitor preview  are a plus . But nothing else makes me want to upgrade at the moment

    Would like to see more updates to material import options say Sbs\sbsar format  and more options to tweak materials in the viewer and it update the material in realtime   .   I know there is already  one are two  made  but  more tutorialsand updates on  lighting and materials on 3d objects and advanced use of particles in the engine would be great. 

    The alembic  feature seems to be almost untouched in the user gallery and there seems to be too much focus IMO  around star wars and ironman effects when there is a very good  pipeline to Icone to show off, that again does not get used  . Also think the community managment is not the best , some times its like a big circle jerk. And please no more starwars tutorials

    How about some competitions and some funding for indie projects useing hitfilm , also the VFX bundles and other effect packages are way overpriced be cheaper to buy a copy of houdini and render them your self , sure you could bring some more variety to your store and more competitive prices .Lets see what the future holds be happy to support the company after a couple of meaty updates

  • Well,  I for one am excited about the new Boris title studio, the expanded audio tools, scopes, and most importantly the second monitor preview! All more than enough for me to upgrade. Thanks Hitfilm team for pushing the feature set continually!

  • The upgrade is just right. Its incremental.
    But they are missing a big chunk of users who have money to spend. And that's professional 3d artists, mograph,  who are using ae, fusion.
    Nevermind the highend film studios that uses nuke. That's never going to be a target group.

    Agree, tone down the starwars stuff and target more than indie film makers.

  • The Hitfilm team is awesome. They continue to push the boundaries by giving the everyday person the ability to add great looking big budget digital effects into their films without the big budget price.  Even giving away versions of the software has allowed kids and adults with no budget what so ever the ability to experiment and experience making movie magic!  To be sure, they should add in features that all users can enjoy - hopefully it will appeal to a wider audience and maybe even drive the price down even more, but I've used these products since the alamDV days and it's foundation is based around Sci-fi style "Star Wars/Fantasy" effects.  Saying that, I don't think the original intent is/was to directly compete with Adobe, but to allow people to add all kinds of effects inexpensively to their films and release their inner George, Steven or JJ.  I'm glad that see they are trying to stayed true to their roots, nah their very heritage.  Keep it up!

  • Just to chip in: I'd like to see some love for motion graphics and such too. More (text and other) parameters that can be animated, expressions (!!) etc. For now, I'm relying on Fusion and AE for mograph-heavy projects. 

    I understand what folks are saying about the original (VFX) user base, and it's probably still the (vast) majority. But, it's a bit of a catch-22 then...we won't get more mograph users if there are limited mograph features, but the features may not get prioritised if there's not enough demand for it.

  • @new3dmus it's not a catch 22, we want to improve this side of the software as well but it takes time and we have limited resources. Adding expressions would be great but it is a non trivial amount of work. It is very likely to happen at some point but I cannot say when.

  • Hi Cedric - ok, that's good to hear! And I understand how expressions can be hard to implement, but the flexibility and potential they can add is tremendous! (and I suspect not all users, especially ones unfamiliar with the concept, realise this ) 

  • @cedric ; how about layered exr? Its been 3 versions of hf. 3d artists render on this format to c omposite cg work.

  • I'm in a fortunate position in that I've not properly upgraded from Hitfilm 2 Ultimate so a lot of the features like Boris etc are still new to me. HF2U has still been able to allow me to do what I'm currently working on with no issues! 

    Thank you for the generous upgrade price still from HF2U and hoping to get a decent graphics card in the Black Friday sales next week which will mean full steam ahead on this upgrade.!

    Congratulations on a great new release.  I don't know how you guys do it (but glad you do)!

  • Didn't express my feelings since I consider myself still a newbie, but I was also hoping for something more VFX/3D oriented. Right now appear a great tool for video makers, I'm sticking to HFP3 waiting for some more goods in the 3D arena.

  • @new3dmus @chibi We do want to do your suggestions but we have to prioritize and sometimes we decide to do 3 or 4 smaller improvements rather than 1 big one. We base our decisions on your feedback so it is important that you do voice your feature requests :)

  • edited November 2016

    FBX import is a pretty great feature to have, I'm glad it made it to HitFilm 2017!  There seems to be a few tools which do 2D graphic animations that export in FBX (though it is primarily 3D)... so I would think you may be able to leverage them to do a good amount of 2D animation work for motion graphics and then use those assets in HitFilm as an idea.  Is that not the case?  So at the very least, FBX import is a good step in the right direction.  I have not used After Effects because it is way too expensive and don't like the idea of subscribing just to continue to use something you spent a lot already on, but I am curious in what motion graphics features you guys are hoping to see.

    I noticed that HitFilm now also allows importing vector graphics via BorisFX Objects as well, is that handled primarily through EPS or does anyone know if there other formats supported?

  • @Charoum I have only tried importing EPS files into Boris and even then I've only tried a few. The Boris docs say that .ai Illustrator files are supported as well. 

    I will say that in downloading EPS files from the net it can be pretty sketchy what Boris will import. Well, any file from the net can be sketchy. I have Newblue titler pro and it imports EPS as well and most often when Boris does not like a file, neither does Newblue.

    Realistically what Boris supports is a likely subset of "full" ai/eps files.

  • Upgraded to Vegas pro 14 which is still buggy and I don't see anything in Hitfilm to make upgrade at this point from HF4. 

  • edited November 2016

    Why has the title of my original post been edited? Is this censorship in operation? Am I not allowed to express my opinion freely?

  • edited November 2016

    Just that ... the title of my other thread has been edited. http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/41814/hitfilm-pro-2017-not-many-motion-graphics-updates#latest used to express disappointment with the 2017 upgrade.

    You have now attached views to my name which amount to misrepresentation, and also I don't appreciate being censored.

    Your own forum rules are as follows:

    1. All are welcome, from beginners to experts.
    2. Discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated.
    3. This is a global community, so expect to find a mix of views, cultures and ages.
    4. Abusive behaviour of any kind towards other users or HitFilm staff will not be tolerated.

    Which of those rules did my post break? Please explain! If you felt there was something wrong or inappropriate, I would love to know what it was, as I haven't had any contact from you to explain.

    PS. I've kept a copy of this post in case it gets edited too. #notimpressed

  • My guess is that it was changed to something more accurate to your OP, because developers have chimed in, and it would allow for healthy feedback to make the software better, much faster.

    I don't think you should feel like as if something bad has happend, they're a small team that are working very hard to compete in a very crowded space.

    Your opinions matter a lot, but maybe you could have put it a little bit nicer, I have nothing but good things to say about the moderators and the staff. I think freedom of speech should only apply if you do your part as well.

    I'm interested to see what was the reason, but that's what I think happend.

  • edited November 2016

    Yes you may be right - maybe the wording was a bit strong, now that I think about it. But just changing people's posts on the fly isn't a great way to respond. A private message or email explaining the reason would have been appreciated.

    Also, the editing was done after the CEO had responded, so he has clearly seen the original title and not thought to comment.

    I appreciate Hitfilm is a passionate and dedicated team, competing for market penetration. All the more reason to keep potential customers like myself on side - I run a business myself and customer relations are so important to get right.

    Bottom line is that I am looking for reasons to buy this product and I hope that future upgrades will reposition it as a serious motion graphics solution.

  • What was the title? Did it say something like "no motion graphics updates". A change from "no" to "not many".

    If so, then IMO, such an edit is outside the scope of the forums own rules. Just challenge the use of the word, no, if you don't like it.

  • I expressed disappointment with the new upgrade, let's just say - I won't reproduce the exact wording, as it triggered an edit the first time round :) 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited November 2016

    Not the one who changed it, but, at a guess, it's for clarity. There are dozens of new features in HFP 2017, including fundamental changes to the core engine, so the original title of "not much new" was inaccurate. The altered title of "not many motion graphic updates" is more factually accurate, and addresses your core concern.

    Incidentally, I AM merging your other thread with this one, just to avoid duplicate posts and responses. 

  • So what if what someone said was inaccurate by whatever definition. It is their words. If you don't like the statement, or feel it inaccurate, then simply challenge it.

    IMO, It is a corruption of power to literally alter someone else's words that are within guidelines. Even in a situation where someone is absolutely 100% wrong, they have a right to be wrong. Again, you challenge. You don't edit.

    One can challenge the edit "not many" as being generous.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited November 2016

    @NormanPCN I don't disagree with you. :-) I've never changed someone's title (other than adding "Solved" to a resolved question). I will merge threads when someone spreads a duplicate question across multiple threads, but always specifically note I've done so. :-) 

    And, of, course craftycurate is always free to re-edit his headline. Just click the settings cog, top right of the thread. 

    FWIW, while I did get my #1 and #2 wishlist items (scopes, more export formats) in HFP 2017, there are things that didn't get added I wanted. While I certainly feel there are enough new and updated features to justify a new version number, HFP 3 and 4 were more exciting updates for me, since I do a lot of work with 3D models and particles. 

  • @Triem23 Every update is a mixed bag for everyone, of course. For me in this one the increased granularity of the NLE zoom scale is nice. It ain't no Vegas. Not by a parsec. But 20 can work with the occasional need to edit the XML project file to correct the NLE timeline length. What is "special" about 20? The Control panel remembering it state between comps is awesome. The lack of that has really pissed me off.

    For motion graphics types, apparently the OP interests, the HF4 update was a big update, IMO, with the addition of Boris. 2017 adds Title Studio which in function can be argued to be a small increment. I think it could be big addition. Especially if 3D objects in Studio properly interact as they cannot as separate BCC effects. Boris did come up with a complicated UI for Studio. Still much of what you can do in Title Studio you can do with the Boris effects we had in HF4.

    I have no doubt FxHome would rather not pay Boris anything and have their own code but BCC is a right here, right now (as of HF4), feature for a real need. Interesting point that since HF uses OpenGL, doing shapes is kinda simple under the covers (implementation). GL is all about vector geometry. The UI to go along with that...well.

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