Will this get fixed in a Hitfilm 3 Pro Update, or is it EOL?

edited June 2016 in Express Support

@Ady, @KirstieT

I reported this bug a while ago here: plane-tracking-a-point-keeps-disappearing

And because it was effectively fatal, I stopped investigating the use of Voodoo (and VideoTrace) to Matchmove and track points.

But, now we've got AutoDesk MatchMover 2014 and it not only works really well with Hitfilm (in your face AE), it's free! :D

I tried it again with Hitfilm 3 Pro and...the same bug is there again. When an angle goes from -359.9 to 0, or vice versa in the next frame the maths goes loopy and the frame becomes invisible.

So, I just tried it with Hitfilm 4 Express and...it works! The angles have no negative values at all, so they're being processed differently on import into Hitfilm and there are no disappearing frames.

Hooray!,, but...I'm trying to work with a 2.7k video (I resized it down to 1080p to check with HF4E) and I can't use the original sized 2.7k (or in the future: 4k) sources with Hitfilm 4 Express. I need it to work properly with Hitfilm 3 Pro.

My question is: Will this get resolved in an update for HF3P, or are those of us who don't need to upgrade for the added features in HF4P SOL as far as any more bug fix updates are concerned?

Although no one answered; I assume someone did actually download the file I uploaded in that other thread. Right? :)

Comments

  • The HitFilm DEV team is pretty small, I would be surprised if they had time to "back-patch" as that would mean they have 4 products to maintain:

    • HF3P
    • HF4 Express
    • HF4P
    • HF5

    Not to say they wouldn't fix it, just understand they have to prioritize based on customer requests. I hope your issue gets resolves, just try to be understanding if they are unable to fins the time :)

  • edited June 2016

    Sure, but 99.999% of the code base will be common, that's why eventually products stifle and die, because you can't easily go back and make huge changes after many years of coding.

    But cut'n'paste of the Import 3D Camera Data function is totally doable.

    It's just a question of how likely there will ever be another bug update for HF3P, or whether it's officially EOL and we're stuck with the bugs.

    Another fun one I just found (Again. Reported it in ages ago then forgot about it) is the Reload Media function....which doesn't. Having to save, exit Hitfilm, restart Hitfilm and reload the entire project because I changed a video file is...annoying as heck, especially as I'm using the export from one Composite as the base layer in another. :)

  • Hi @Palacono, I'm sorry you are experiencing difficulties with the software. To answer your question about whether the orientation issue will be fixed in an update to HF3, it is highly unlikely. The reason why is that it is not a simple "copy&paste" of what is in HitFilm 4. Fixing this bug required to change how interpolation of the orientation property works so putting the fix into an update would change how existing projects work. Projects that were fine in the previous update would break for no apparent reason and people would be annoyed by this. Changing it in a major new version is however more acceptable because people can use HitFilm 3 if they would like to keep the old behaviour or HitFilm 4 if not. On top of this, HitFilm 4 required a major refactoring of the KeyFrames for the graph, which would prevent any copy/paste but would imply to rewrite the fix.

    Regarding the reload media issue, it should be fixed in HF4 but again, it is not a trivial fix. We need to balance the risk of fixing something with the risk of introducing another, potentially much worse. We have (very) limited resources for developping and testing.

    I'm sorry that this probably wasn't the answer you were looking for. In a software of that scale, simple things are often much more complicated than they sound and sometimes something that can be explained in just a few words can take weeks to fix, it is just the nature of software development. We are always trying to keep you guys happy, prioritizing things that you ask for whenever possible but unfortunately sometimes it isn't.

  • edited June 2016

    @CedricBonnier Thanks for the reply, and although I'm not sure I understand some of the logic; I suspected HF3P was EOL, but there was always hope. :)

    But, to answer your point: the original HF3P import camera function never worked properly with the data from any program that produced .ma camera files. I tried all I could find and they all exhibited the same problem when the data was loaded into Hitfilm, so I very much doubt anyone would be happy to continue to have the bugs that meant they could never have  imported a camera that crossed the 0>-359.9>0 degree boundary.

    Your suggestion that: because the interpolation method was changed, it can't be fixed without breaking things, is disproved by a very simple experiment. Loading a project and checking it. ;)

    The bugfix is in the import function: existing projects aren't affected. I confirmed this by loading an HF3P project with the broken camera into HF4E and it remained broken, whereas reimporting the same, original .ma camera data worked perfectly in HF4E as the importer corrected the bugs. So, existing, saved  projects would continue to be 'broken' in HF3P or HF4P or HF4E if anyone really wanted to keep them that way, although I doubt they would. :)

    If this would help you, or the programmer who misinformed you of where the fix lies in the code, I can provide the project files to confirm this.

    So, projects would not " break for no apparent reason and people would be annoyed by this" (BTW, I'm annoyed it doesn't work properly for no reason, or doesn't that count?), but if you were concerned: you could have had a 'Legacy' button on the importer, to allow for it working both ways. But, as that didn't happen for Hitfilm 4 Pro or Express, nor was the bug either acknowledged or documented that it now worked properly in HF4: you probably agree with me that it was just a bug that no one wanted, or would want, because it's not particularly useful. ;)

    And if the import function is not a simple data in, data out module that can be cut'n'pasted: as an ex-coder myself, it seems you're making life more complicated for yourself than you need to. Code modules should be dumb, deaf and blind black boxes that can be swapped and rewritten with zero impact to surrounding code. That's what .DLLs are intended for. :D

    BTW, yes, reload was fixed in HF4 Pro and Express, I just don't have the resources to spend on it, so I'm working around the bugs in HF3 Pro and trying to use HF4E where I can't do that.

  • EmmaEmma Staff

     As you suspected @Palacono, I did accidentally misinform @Cedric this morning when we discussed your post and I'm sorry for any confusion that has caused. I assumed you were experiencing a problem with the changes made to the interpolation of orientation properties and removal of the negative part of their range when importing camera data. I was also incorrect in my belief that these changes (which we considered breaking changes due to the extent they modified current behaviour) were made in HitFilm 4, when they were made in HitFilm 3.

    Having read your post again I can see the issue is with rotation properties and a change was made to how they are imported in HitFilm 4. I don't personally know whether this has been previously acknowledged or documented but we're not in the habit of denying that sometimes we make mistakes that need to be fixed...as I am now doing! But often a bug fix relies on previous changes that have been made and so it is more difficult or time consuming to backport a fix than expected.

  • @Emma, thanks for answering my rant. :)  No one had responded back in February when I previously put the requested project file on Mediafire demonstrating the problem in the thread I posted in the first line of the first post up there ^^.

    Let's blame Simon, now he's going/gone. ;)  Oh, Hi Simon, you're still about after all? Awkward...

    So...OK, I thought: no one's interested...except they were and fixed it in Hitfilm 4 Pro, which I don't have.  They say no good deed goes unpunished, but it's flippin' frustrating sometimes to see reported fixes in the next version of the program (Quad Warp being another one) that I can't use without upgrading, so I hold out hope that some fixes are easy enough to do and you'll throw your previous customers a bone, because it's not cannibalizing  your new sales because you've got actual whizzy new features to attract new customers with. :)

    And you've done weirder ones...removing the Movie wall????

    But..limited resources are...limited resources. I understand. Mine are just as limited. :(

    How about a bounty for bugs? I've got about a dozen I could report, it's just too time consuming to do movies for all of them. :D

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    Side observation: I can actually tell you why the export to Movie Wall was removed. HF3E vastly increased the user base and export to Movie Wall was on by default. The Wall was getting flooded badly--like a user might have been doing a simple test where 6, 7, 8 nearly identical shots were getting uploaded within half an hour. There were also quite a few gameplay vids being uploaded that were quite inappropriate (disturbingly, there was a 10-year-old kid uploading compilations from Japanese "get laid a lot" games), and I know *I*was spending fair amounts of time identifing and reporting them to Kirstie and Simon. 

    Anyways, one can still submit to the Movie Wall from the Movie Wall page, but pulling the option from the Export module would have greatly cut down on the overload of superfluous or pornographic material getting uploaded. 

  • @Triem23 I'm sure being dragged away from important work to curate the Movie Wall was frustrating and I'm glad that the staff can now concentrate more on other benefits.

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