Sony Vegas Pro 14 (It might actually happen!)

A direct posting from the moderator of the SoCal Vegas users Group:

"Yes. It is True! Sony Vegas 14 is forthcoming. And it is still being worked on.

Please don't ask me any questions about it. Just Trust Me!

Jay"

And another posting in the same user group from Hitfilm User @Setiawan:

 

"So far I heard from other groups:
OFFICIAL Sony answer. (to respond the gossip of 'Sony Vegas Pro 14 suite' available on 'unknown' online store:
I questioned to Sony Creative Software support about some online stores selling Vegas Pro 14 Suite, if this was true or lie. The answer was:
- Kim N.: We do not have a Vegas Pro 14 available at this time so those are most likely inaccurate listings.
Then I asked if there will be a Vegas Pro 14 or not:
- Kim N.: There is a version 14 being worked on, but there have been some unanticipated delays so it's not available at the moment. We don't know when it will be released but it is being worked on.
So, let´s wait to see which differences will be launched compared with older versions
also, this one from a user on the Vegas DV Info group when SCS was asked about the future of Vegas:
Vegas Pro is not dead but at this point I can’t make any official announcements.


Best

Michael Bryant; Director of Marketing"
 
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Comments

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    As the person who's been convinced Vegas was dead for the last year, this makes me cautiously happy. I would further speculate that the unanticipated delays might be related to trying to get off the Video For Window framework--or Vegas will be folded into Catalyst.

    Now if Sony would just change the two lines of code they need to change to fix the broken Hitiflm interaction, that would be great....

  • edited April 2016

    So much time that it looks like a major/complete rewrite, so let's keep finger crossed- and I hope that the Studio variant would also be released :)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Marcin I'm with you on the major/complete rewrite. Hence speculating that Sony is trying to get off the VFW code. That alone pretty much changes 100% of the engine.

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

    NAB starts in 5 days so we might get an official announcement even if it isn't ready to ship yet. 

  • Not used the Sony software myself, but I get the impression that people liked the old software, surely a re-write is risky? Or just the fact that the product lives on it a good thing?

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Andy001z Vegas's UI and workflow are different from pretty much any other NLE, but the core rendering engine is based on the long-obsolete Video for Windows code. Best case scenario is a ground up rewrite aiming for the same basic look and feel of the software, ideally still managing to hold backwards compatibility with older script based plug-ins. That's the basic hope. 

    The appeal of Vegas for it's devotees has been based around two things--Vegas has always been format agnostic. By contrast Avid really wants to transcode everything to an Avid codec before import, and FCP doesn't let you mix footage of different resolutions in a timeline without conforming to project resolution first. Vegas will take damn near anything from Realmedia files to native RED footage--with native RED support added two years before AE and Premiere. 

    Second, Vegas started out as an audio editor and it basically treats video as audio--but this means Vegas does things differently from other NLE's. If you overlap clips on a track Vegas decides that's a crossfade. Any other NLE will truncate the first clip. Then you're doing A/B setups or having to specify a transition... 

    Bottom line for me is I can cut a project in Vegas in a quarter of the time of Premiere or Avid. For basic moving clips around a timeline to get and edit, there's nothing faster. Vegas's weaknesses are an obsolete render engine and some iffy export codec choices, which means slow render times, and mediocre output quality for a couple of widely used formats. Also, wonky colorspace that assumes you need a 16-235 luma range for broadcast. 

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

    @Andy001z Compared to other NLE's Vegas is a very fluid environment and you don't have to spend a lot of time doing this, that and the other thing before you can get to work. It's just import your clips no matter what they are and go. I have yet to meet the Vegas user that actually uses the Trimmer. It's there and full featured but it's easier and faster to just trim right on the timeline and closing the trimmer gives the UI more room for more important things. Avid users don't get that and their brain shuts down with the closing of the trimmer.

    The other big thing for Vegas users is the scripting and script extension support. A good script or the right extension can cut project times down to a fraction of what they would be in another NLE.

    And just when you think Vegas doesn't have an option for something you find out it's been there for at least the last three versions. As an example Triem23 mentioned a wonky colorspace and that's true but Vegas also has full ACES support so a couple of project settings and an ODT later the problem is solved. 

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @Aladdin4d yes, I should have mentioned you can fix the color space in Vegas, but that's not the sort of thing a newer user would pick up on. For the Vegas interface I would add a quick toggle in Project Settings for 0-255/16-235 for users who don't need to get in 32-bit space. 

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

    @Triem23 A toggle would be easier but that was just an off the cuff example like having adjustment layers - you wouldn't think you could at first but you certainly can. Vegas has all kinds of little things like that.

  • edited April 2016

    Whether or not Vegas Pro 14 is near, I would at least expect an announcement at NAB next week.  (And our HitFilm staff friends are probably under NDA and are just quietly humming to themselves right now, pretending that they know nothing...)

    A couple of sites actually had the artwork for Vegas Pro 14.  The pages have since been pulled, but Google cache still has it. 

    For example, search on Google for "Sony Vegas Pro 14 Dell".  My first hit goes to a page at dell.com that now longer exists.  But if you click on drop-down arrow on the second line of the Google hit, and select "cached", you can see a copy of the page that Google cached:

    See if this link works:

    2016.04.17 Edit: Removed the original link, because it suddenly was linking to a laptop battery.  Here is another link to "cached" content via Google (as described above click the green dropdown arrow):

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CK6MRoRGPdEJ:accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx%3Fc%3Dus%26l%3Den%26s%3Ddfh%26cs%3D22%26sku%3DA8766525+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

     

  • Here's a link to just the artwork JPG, still live at dell.com:

    http://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/large/A8766521.jpg

  • Having read numerous Forum postings - its generally believed that image is a fake
    No NAB announcement so either its being worked on and still delayed or all the talk is just a bunch of rumors
    I have used SVP since 1998 - too  bad HF isn't a true editing alternative. I tried Resolve but it won't open files from my camera

  • ccliffy -- Right-click on the box artwork in my post immediately above yours and check "properties".  That file is coming right from Dell.com.  (url = http://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products... etc).  It seems unlikely  that someone would create fake artwork, then hack into Dell's servers and insert fake product listings.  (But admittedly, not impossible!)

    Search for the "SVPE14099ESD" mfr part number on the web.  Mostly "removed" links at this point, but the Google cached pages remain.

    But I agree that an announcement at NAB would be nice.  Maybe a release is still a long way off.

    The hitfilm staff probably know about this, but have to remain silent for now:

    "Overview

    Vegas Pro 14 Edit delivers pure Vegas Pro core technology in a cost-effective package. New features include smart restoration and upscale features, interoperability with HitFilm 4 Pro, new plug-ins by Sony, and NewBlueFX, new hardware support for High DPI monitors, Blackmagic, AJA SDI devices and RED cameras, and application wide performance improvements. Vegas Pro 14 Edit offers more formats, supports more workflows, and provides the tools for more creative control than ever before.

    Manufacturer Part# : SVPE14099ESD
    Dell Part# : A8766525"

  • edited April 2016

    As a long-time user of Vegas Pro - pretty much started using it when Sonic Foundry created it and then Sony bought it - and have used it up to Vegas Pro 12.

    Once upon a time, Vegas Pro was stable and really excellent for video editing, however, in its latest incarnation, it is unstable and crashes frequently (and my machine is 100% free of malware, viruses and PUPs - it's the software).

    I own a top-of-the-line MSI Dominator Pro laptop with all the bells and whistles - totally maxed out on memory (32GB), a 8 core generation 6 Core i7 CPU, 4TB of hard drive space - one 1TB hybrid SSD drive and a full 3TB raid array -  and with a GTX 980 Nvidia video card - there is little I can't do on this thing.  Yet ... Vegas Pro crashes plenty on me.

    I tried Da Vinci Resolve, but it also has stability problems.

    I use Final Cut Pro X with motion on my Mac Book Pro, but since that is just about the only software I ever use on it, I find myself booting up my Mac less and less.  It, too, has crashed on me frequently enough to disrupt my work-flow.

    I now use, tada, HitFilm 4 Pro for all of my video editing and compositing tasks and I am 95% satisfied.  It has not crashed on me once and is very competent at serious video editing.  It is, however, missing a few very important things, mostly in the audio department. 

    1. It need true crossfade capability.  Like Vegas Pro, you should be able to move one clip into another and an automatic crossfade should result.  This should be true for video and audio.  This is something that should be toggled on/off in preferences.

    2. Track zooming.  Even though you can lengthen a track (horizontally), you cannot zoom into it vertically. This is a MAJOR problem, especially in audio.  It is virtually impossible to edit audio envelopes or do any fine editing of the audio waveform when it's so damn tiny.  Being able to zoom in would allow for fine editing and more complex tasks. For those with high end monitors/video cards and bad eyesight, zooming in and out is a godsend.

    3. Edit by the numbers.  Hitfilm Pro needs a numeric entry capability for things like audio envelopes.  It is almost impossible to figure out the db of a audio waveform by sliding a bar or node up and down.  A numeric entry box for audio enveloping would allow us to be more precise about audio editing.

    4. Realtime audio info.  When audio editing, the db of the waveform should be displayed with the editing cursor so you know where you are at.  Again, with audio editing, this would allow for more precise editing and is sorely missing.

    5. A true audio mixer per channel.  Hitfilm needs a full mixer for each and every track of audio used. It should have mute, solo, panning, a level fader and preferably a EQ section (high, mids and lows) along with live db meters.

    6. VST effects for audio.  This is a biggie.  VST effects would allow for more complex audio production inside of hitfilm and make it a truly COMPLETE video editor.

    Once these things are added, HitFilm will be a true force in the video editing and compositing workspace.

    Vegas, on the other hand, is no longer a part of my workflow with the small exception of quick conversions to exported formats or small little projects - and even then, the need to re-start the software or reboot because of crashes and niggles is wearing thin on me.

    Mike

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator
    edited April 2016

    @karma the annoying thing about Vegas is most of it's crashes can be solved simply by turning off GPU acceleration.

    Vegas's main issue is that it's core functions are built around a Video for Windows/Direct Show framework, and Microsoft ended development of DirectShow back in Windows XP days. 

    Which for obvious reasons has made it increasing difficult to keep current. The core code for Vegas predates 4k, and predates GPUs! 

    When Catalyst was released, general assumption was that Vegas was being retired as updating Vegas to current technology flat out requires a full ground-up rewrite (and if Vegas 14 comes out, I expect old plug-ins to no longer work in the new version). It seemed Catalyst was going to be it. 

    A ground-up rewrite is the only logical reason for both the delay and the lack of communication from Sony. As pure speculation it's even possible that a Vegas 14 (with new core code) could be cross-platform! 

    I wouldn't need much from a Vegas 14. Give me the same basic look, feel and workflow that sets Vegas apart from the others with stable GPU acceleration and I am happy enough. 

     Side note. If you stopped at Vegas 12, 13 didn't really have new and sexy features, but it is a lot more stable. 

  • Lets just hope that if there is a Vegas 14 that Sony doesn't make it subscription only like they did with their Catalyst software.

  • edited May 2016

    Bumping this thread.  It was reported today that Magix will be acquiring the Sony Vegas product line (and Sound Forge, Acid, etc.) from Sony Creative Software.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/magix-aquires-sonys-video-editing-music-software-today-klaus-schmidt?articleId=6140572451404337153#comments-6140572451404337153&trk=prof-post

    A little over 3 weeks ago, the Magix CEO had posted about hiring for a development studio in Madison, Wisconsin (USA).  (How did the internet not notice that?  I only noticed it today, after clicking on the post above.)

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/opening-our-new-develoment-studio-usa-madison-wi-soon-klaus-schmidt?articleId=6131882190767747072#comments-6131882190767747072&trk=prof-post

    Here is a link to a thread at the Sony Vegas user forums.  The forum admin commented that the Catalyst lines would continue to be developed by Sony.  I think those lines are more targeted to news organizations, maybe film crew dailies, etc.  A different market from Vegas editors.

    http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=945099

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    This is great news. No way Magix is going to buy out SCS and NOT develop it! 

  • I'd rather keep poking FxHome with a cattle prod to get them to spiff up the Hitfilm NLE.

    IMO, The NLE's biggest issue is a tedious workflow. As a child of Sony Vegas, I have been spoiled rotten by an efficient workflow.

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

     It'll be interesting to see how this plays out because Magix already has Video Pro X. Not well known in the US and not quite as advanced as Vegas, Premiere or Edius but it's no slouch either. One area where it was lacking was effects support. Previous versions used the same plugins as VirtualDub of all things but the latest version added OFX support. Hiring people for a Madison development studio does say they're going to keep Vegas going though.

    Magix also has two great DAW's Samplitude and its big brother Sequoia

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    @NormanPCN I, too, am eagerly watching Hitfilm for Editor enhancements. But, yeah, having used Vegas, Avid, Premiere and FCPX (I do need to look at Resolve), Vegas is the fastest, by far, to cut in. 

    @Aladdin4d even without the hiring notice in Madison I would assume the Sonic Foundry packages would stay in development--otherwise, why buy software that hasn't been updated in two (Vegas), four (Sound Forge) or six (ACID) years? Presumably while keeping Video Pro X alive? 

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator
    edited May 2016

    @Triem23 What I'm most curious about is what price point for which product. Video Pro X is $399.00 list and Vegas Pro 13 Edit is $399.95 list so which one is going to be top dog and how much is it going to be? Samplitude is a good DAW and starts at $399.00 but their real "pro" DAW is Sequoia and it's $2975.00. I love Vegas but if it ends up being 3 grand I'm going to have to pass on it.........

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    We shall see. 

  • Will HF integrate with the new VP/SMS?

    Probably we will not get the answer before the autumn :)

  • edited May 2016

    I'm glad there has been such a positive reaction to this news and that all the Vegas fans can see a brighter future for the product. We've loved working with the Sony Creative Software team and look forward to working with MAGIX too.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator

    That's as definitive an answer as we're gonna get. ;-) 

    In seriousness, the Vegas integration works with Hitfilm between 2 Ultimate and 4 Pro. @Palacono can give you an unofficial workaround. 

    For the future? Magix is hiring for the Madison, WI home of the Vegas development team. @JoshDaviesCEO my guess is you'll work with the same team--just different corporate oversight. 

  • edited May 2016

    More encouraging news picked up from the Sony Vegas forum.  Gary Rebholz -- who has been involved with Vegas since Sonic Foundry had it -- is now part of MAGIX and will be the new PO ("Product Owner") for overseeing Vegas development.  If you've ever watched a Sony-produced training video, or have seen a Vegas demo at NAB, it was most likely Gary that you saw.

    John Rofrano, who develops Vegas 3rd-party apps for VASST, posted this info on the SCS Vegas Pro forum:

    ------------------------------

    During these years I have become friends many of the SCS staff and I was speaking with Gary Rebholz about what he’s up to and he has agreed to allow me to share some key points from that conversation with the Vegas Pro community:

    I am happy to share with you that Gary Rebholz has accepted a position with MAGIX as the Vegas PO leading the effort. They have a small team of experienced Vegas developers on board, so there is domain knowledge along with several direct connections back to Sonic Foundry. In other words, he has a team that knows and loves this software! ;-)

    According to Gary, MAGIX intends to develop Vegas Pro into the future. MAGIX is a software company--not a hardware company trying to also do software--so they understand software development, and future Vegas development will not be as greatly hardware driven as it was in the past few years.

    Gary said that MAGIX is currently looking into how they can continue the great Vegas Forum community and want to place a new premium on user feedback and input.

    I take all of this to mean that Vegas Pro has a bright future with MAGIX and you can stop worrying. Vegas Pro has truly found a new home with a company that is serious about delivering quality software that is driven by user feedback. You couldn't have asked to be dealt a better hand.

    I’m thankful to Gary for allowing me to share this news with the community instead of asking me to keep it to myself (under NDA).

    ------------------------------

    Again, all of the italic text was lifted from JR's post on the Vegas Pro forum:

    http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/showmessage.asp?messageid=945352

     

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator

    And from Gary Rebholz himself in the same thread:


    Hi everyone. I can't express how wonderful it is to experience your enthusiasm about the recent acquisition. Good things lie ahead! I want to assure all of you that I will be following what you say in the forums as best I can, even if I won't be able to participate directly as much as I'd like.

    I also want to introduce you to Eric D. from our team here in Madison. Eric will be directly involved in the forums on a regular basis. He is your conduit to communicating with the team. Many of you know Eric from his work on the support group at SCS. He's extremely knowledgeable and is here to help you. We want to make sure you feel heard, even if we can't get to all of your requests. Expect an introductory post from Eric in the next day or two.

    Again, thank you for all the enthusiasm and support. And thank you JR for helping spread the message!

    Here we go!

    Gary

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