New Playstation & Xbox this year?

Seems there will be new consoles this year.
Are we jumping to the 'next gen' too soon?
PS4 rumoured to be technically more 'PC-like' than the PS3 & much easier to program for. More details to follow on February 20th.
Interesting indeed, I wonder if Sony will change the controller this time around?
Have Microsoft or Sony learn't from their mistakes?
Linky

Comments

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator
    edited February 2013
    I remain quite unconvinced by consoles in general. My PS2 I used as a DVD player and only ever found about 3 games of interest - GTA:VC, GTA:SA and Shadow of the Colossus. I expected the PS3 to be different, but it's basically been a blu-ray player with only a handful of interesting games in its lifetime - Flower, Journey, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption. My Wii is basically just a fitness device.
    The games I've mentioned are all fantastic, but games that actually interest me on consoles are so few and far between that it's quite perplexing. Compare this to PC gaming, where every couple of months there's at least a couple of interesting games appearing, to the extent that I don't have time to play them, and the difference is stark.
    This of course doesn't include multi-platform games, which I usually elect to play on PC due to preferable controls and often superior graphics.
    Now, I'm quite aware that what I'm talking about here is purely personal taste. But I'm frequently surprised by how narrow console gaming appears to be, such that its games simply don't appeal to me. PC gaming, by contrast, seems so much more varied.
    So, that's the software side. On the hardware side, consoles can sometimes be impressive on launch, but it's hard to get too excited about something that is ageing before it's even released. I'll happily stick with CD Projeckt's cutting edge PC tech, not to mention promising projects like Star Citizen.
    I have to say that I'm far more excited about the potential in Nvidia's Shield (other than being dog ugly) or the various Steam boxes than I am in yet another closed, hardware-and-lifetime-limited console box from Sony and Microsoft.
    Also, here are some interesting comments from Gabe Newell regarding the future of sofa gaming. Basically, he's saying that Apple are best positioned for the next gen of sofa gaming, with Microsoft and Sony still clinging on to older models. All Apple need to do is make their move at the right time in order to make Microsoft and Sony irrelevant.
  • Well, Simon, your taste in games seems to be similar to mine. I like anything GTA (all the side stories) including Red Dead Redemption which is GTA on horseback set in the old American west- LOVE that game. But to see that 2 GTA issues, GTA 4 and now 5(?) is it? That's a total of 3 games for a $250 console is pretty much a waste. As much as I love video games and the hours of fun they bring, I may just get a Wii for the exersize and forget the others. The games are always too pricey- $50-$80 depending on popularity, evidently, so I always wait a month and see if there are any used ones for sale. I think that's where the gaming companies went wrong. 1st, they got into online gaming which in and of itself isn't a bad thing but they don't have games for 4 players sitting on one room together much anymore. So my buddies and I switched to Wii but that got old after a year and a half. 2nd, if they sold cheaper $20-$25, I might explore more than I have and buy more games. Now I find most of my fun money going for movie stuff largly in part to FXhome changing my focus. So another console game unit? Unlikely.
    Besides, if you take care of your equipment you can enjoy games for years to come. Don't play them as often and they're just as fun to revisit two or three years down the road.
  • I do expect that new consoles will be at least announced this year. For sure the graphics on a PS and Xbox are getting very tired compared to PC offerings.
    I do understand the point of view that the PC is 'better' and the graphics, modding, etc will always be in front of console. As I'm sure others understand the console can win on price as you are not updating graphics cards, memory, etc. And, of course, as each console has the same hardware specs they don't have compatibly problems.
    My PC is still running an Intel Q9400 cpu (I just looked it up, it was released in 2008!) and an ATI 5770 video card. These specs are enough to run Hitfilm 2 and Adobe Lightroom without trouble.
    For gaming, I perfer to be on the lounge in front of the 50" plasma on the PS3. (Hopefully a 60" and PS4 before too long) :)
  • I think Sony and Microsoft are going to have this blow up in their face. So the story goes not backward compat, cannot buy used games, people on many sites are making fun of it in neg ways. dont look good for these consoles with the encomy in the ground.
  • I think Sony's new patent which stops the sale of used games is rather disturbing and would make me seriously considering buying a PS4.
    I often wonder why gamers would chose a console over a PC, when the PS3 came out there was a second compelling reason to buy it, It was a reasonable price for A Bluray player and it upscalled normal DVD. That wont apply this time
    I have already made my choice in the "next gen" console wars anyway Ive bought a WII U which is a fantastic bit of kit for me because of one thing Local multiplayer. I have two kids age 5 and 10 and I don't think its possible to have more gaming than a family session of Nintendo land or Sonic all star racing.
    To summurise my ramblings I wonder how sucessful the next generation of consoles will be, Will the slightly better but not top end graphics be a compelling reason to shell out a new console and hopefully we will see a resuragance in the PC has the premium platform for gaming, with the Wii U picking up the family/casual market
  • @guitar... backwards compatibly isn't something you should could just expect. Also it costs extra to make a system backwards compatible. Also, if you keep the old system then what's the problem?
    The new xbox and playstation are completely unneeded. Theres not a bigger leap in ability. Also the PS3 is a lot more powerful then other systems but looked identical or worse on most games. Right now my x box doesn't need to get upgraded. The leap won't be big enough to make it a must have. I have a Xbox 360, ps3, wii and Wii U.
  • edited February 2013
    Also the PS3 is a lot more powerful then other systems but looked identical or worse on most games.

    PS3 exclusive games are some of the best looking I've ever seen, but they do tend to have a problem with ports. I imagine that's because the system is notoriously difficult to code for, so only those studios that focus on PS3 coding are able to use it to its potential. Naughty Dog for example.
    However! I also think a new console generation seems rather tedious right now, especially with the quality of gaming on PC. I have a 360 that I only use to play Forza 4 every once in a while, and a PS3 that is pretty exclusively used for Blu-Ray and Netflix streaming. I use my PC most of all for gaming nowadays, and I can't see that changing unless the consoles become upgradeable and customizable.
    I'm sure there will be games that I really want to play on the next console generation, and I'll be interested in seeing what they can do, but I can't see myself buying a new console for at least a few more years, if at all.
  • I still believe the very fact that console don't need upgrading, etc is why they will be around for another generation at least.
    Most consoles are purchased by people who don't know anything about PC's and upgrading. They don't know why a game will not run when their video card drivers are out of date. Or why the all-in-one pc they purchased doesn't play games at a high resolution and frame rate... or what resolution or frame rate even means.
    They might only have one PC in the house and one person wants to buy shoes on ebay and talk to friends on facebook while the other wants to play the latest COD for an hour.
    If sony and microsoft come out with new consoles that look more like current PC games many people will jump across. And the consoles don't need to output the same resolution as PC's either as TVs are still only at 1080p. (for the moment, I know that the manufactures would like to see that change)
    I'm not taking anything away from PC gaming at all. If you want the best experience then you need to go the PC path. My point is that consoles do still serve a purpose. Not for everyone sure, but still enough to be relevant for a while yet.
  • Michael James
    I know the specs of the new machine from what I saw online. Lets look at the price for backward compat. The machine cost itself is not that much, more than likely for another 20 dollars it can be backward compat. I heard these companies saying the price is so high because of the research and etc for making the machine, but any major company is going to take money and put it back to do research and development. All parts are from China, in other words very cheap to buy. Then your old machine dies and you still like to play these games, that is why people want a backward compat machine. I have read a lot of comments and fourms from people saying the same thing.
    I like the old Wii system control, but the games did not hold up. That is where I think and I read articles on the wii u falling like a rock. I notice they got some good games, but I like the old control system and when I read about the wii u, my first thought was mistake..... Just my opinion and a lof of others. Game machines are not ready yet for a upgrade, the encomy sucks right now.
  • While backwards compatibility is nice im not sure how much of an issue it is, I tried the old Zelda game in the wii U to test it and while it worked fine after getting used to the new pin sharp graphics it looked a bit old and fuzzy
    Its funny how quickly you get used to new graphics, my first computer had a resoloution of 64x 48 pixels was black and whit annd now im turning my nose up at wii graphics
    I think the price of backwards compatibility depends on the change in the Hardware so it could be significant.

    That Star Citizen looks fantastic will be intresting to see how it finally turns out, while eve was ok I found its point and click nature a turn off
  • @Guitar... you are just pulling 20 dollars out of your butt as a number per device. The fact is that its a completely new chipset. Wasting time to go back and make it work is silly. Classic Video games never had that ability and its a luxury. Now some people would like that luxury but if you already had a bunch of games for the PS3 or PS2... then just keep the system. As new technology comes available they do not need to support the old technology.. My Wii-U cannot play DVDs but that's such a minor feature that has been replicated by 3 other devices in my video cabinet. I know im not going to convince you to want less, but that's such a moot selling point to the average person who plays video games. Also 20 dollars per system sounds like nothing, but when you launch a new system and aren't making a profit in the first place? The xbox 360 and the PS3 were both sold at a loss for a long time. The wii was a cash making machine because they kept costs low. Nintendo doesn't make a profit selling the Wii-U until after they sell 1 game. With video game sales hurting why hobble your profits? That's why this life cycle has ran as long as it has. The Xbox finally started getting good and there is a whole ecosystem that is thriving and making money. They are scared of more years of losses.
    @Thelurkerish The new graphics normalcy happens because we get impressed at the new levels of graphics and lose interest in the old stuff. I mean look at the jumps in graphics... NES>SNES>N64>Game cube> Wii>Wii-U. The wii did not have the same level of jump but brought something a little more interesting to table. Have you seen the images of the Zelda tests? It looks very impressive. Im not excited about the PS4 or new Xbox because either they are going to copy the wii u more(see smart glass and vita) or try to push hardware again. The rumor of the Xbox illumiroom sounds lame.
    MS IllumiRoom
    http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/01/10/xbox-soapbox-debating-the-xbox-illumiroom
    Rumors on the ps4 specs
    http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-has-a-design-that-on-paper-outperforms-the-xbox-720
    I went from running StarCraft 2 at the lowest settings to StarCraft 2 in ultra and graphics in extreme. Huge difference. Worth the new computer. The difference between Ultra... and High... Not a major difference that would merit a new computer or even a new graphics card. Here is a game that's going to be very beautiful http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/01/13/ces-wii-u-zelda-tech-demo
    Higher graphics above that game would be less noticeable.
  • Michael James
    I'm not pulling numbers out of my butt, but thats for that info. I know how much stuff cost when it comes to business, like a ipone the newest model cost around 70 dollars to make, then there is a 70% to 82% markup at the store where you would buy it. I will not buy a ps4 or xbox 720 or what ever it is called. I just read out of the 300 post 99.4% people what the PS4 to play the PS3 games. Sony and Microsoft lost money due to the fact that is a lie. The newer ps3's will not play PS2 games, but that motor cost around a dollar or two extra and they did not put it in. Trust me a new chipset or not, there are reasons and money is the biggest thing why they dont do this. I would not say a PS3 is not a classic machine since they still making games for the PS3. Since these are made in China, the cost is so low to make one of these machines and I would say 20 dollars for the small part to make it backward compat, would be a very low cost. I hated it when Sony and other companies said that the LCD TV's, that they lost money to build them. If a company lost money to make a TV, they would not lower the cost. No company is going to take a lost and I believe Sony and Microsoft said said they lost money on the machines due to a very low sells, because those things were over 500 dollars for a long time. Well, I think the some of the lower end machines were a bit cheaper. The chipset and the programming would not be to hard to make a backward compat machine, they just dont want to since what I read the PS4 and Xbox are going to have only download games. The Will does play DVD's if you want to hack it with some software. Nintendo kept the cost down for the consumer but the graphics are still good and some games are as good as the other consoles. It is the business end on what they want, but people dont want to spend 500 dollars on a PS4 and there PS3 dies, so the have to go buy another machine, since there are games they like to play. Companies dont listen to what they public wants, just saying thats what people want.
    The Wii U, to me is a waste and Nintendo will consider it probably as another Virtual boy. The onld Wii needed smoe upgrades, but the control sysmten was the best, I played games better with the wii than holding a controller. I dont have to have the newest tech, since most of it is a waste. Like I got a Cannon Rebel T3i and then the newer models have 1 or 2 different functions and the price is high on those. Companies make people think they have to have the latest tech, like the Apple Drones have to have new iphone every 11 months. Sorry if that insults anyone about the Apple thing, but a stupid iPad for 800 US dollars, come on, I can get a good tablet and have expandable memory up to what the ipads have. My opinon and no need to insult me over this. Thanks and peace out!
  • Graphics aren't all about fidelity, though. Well, sure, if you're talking about the latest Call of Duty I suppose they are, but those are the games that have dated horribly over the years. Then if you look at games that had a strong artistic vision and they haven't dated anything like as badly, even if they use old tech.
    One of the best gaming experiences I've had recently is Proteus. Very lo-fi visuals, but utilised in an imaginative and vivid manner. Despite having no goals or tasks, it feels more like a real 'place' than Skyrim, for example. Check it out: http://www.visitproteus.com/
    http://youtu.be/rpkpuoq6y9s
    While I love the drive towards realism in graphics, if that's the only thing you seek in gaming visuals then you're missing out on a lot.
  • @Guitar... you can't claim to know costs based on working at the retail level. Its a documented fact that Nintendo is not making ANY profit at the moment on the Wii-U system until they sell 1 game. You can claim to know different but your experience is based on COMPLETELY different levels. Its like comparing the difference between a Honda Civic and a Ferrari. New technology has expensive new patents which push costs up. Old technology can be made very cheaply. Its why Microsoft and Sony eventually started making profit off of the sale of systems. Just because you make things in China does not mean instant profit. I could understand if you worked at a higher manufacturing level job related to video games or were an analyst in the industry. Nintendo made the right step with the wii but they also ignored a lot of things that gamers want from a system. Eventually HD became standard and some games do not work well with they style remote. Fighting games, and racing games were not nearly as good with that style remote. That's why they started releasing a lot of controllers to emulate the traditional style controller.
    Professional report on Wii-U profitability
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/wii-u-profitable-with-just-one-software-sale-6400457
    Professional report on PS3 being sold at a loss initially(for years)
    http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/playstation-3-finally-turning-a-profit-on-each-console-sold/
    Professional report on xbox 360 finally making a profit
    http://www.1up.com/news/xbox-360-making-profit-unit
    On cameras... yea the T3i and the T4i are very similar and the extra features do not change the core of the camera. So the big question when comparing the 2 is do you have money to blow? Those are FAR from the latest technologies and are priced for lower end consumers. I went with the Canon 6D which lacked certain consumer features that were found in cheaper models but had move useful higher end features. The 6D is a budget level prosumer camera.
    Not trying to insult you, but you are there is a difference between fact and opinion based on different facts. Low end electronics take pennies to make now. This isn't me making a claim which system is better, this is me saying the perceived costs you believe are not in line with professional level reports from people whole solely work on this.

  • One of the best gaming experiences I've had recently is Proteus. Very lo-fi visuals, but utilised in an imaginative and vivid manner. Despite having no goals or tasks, it feels more like a real 'place' than Skyrim, for example. Check it out: http://www.visitproteus.com/
    http://youtu.be/rpkpuoq6y9s
    While I love the drive towards realism in graphics, if that's the only thing you seek in gaming visuals then you're missing out on a lot.

    Whoa, that looks awesome. Definitely going to have to give that a try.
  • @Simon I totally agree. Some of the classic games that everyone loves are on systems that produce graphics below what even a cheap cellphone could produce. This is one reason why Nintendo has done very well in comparison to Sony and Microsoft at making video games. Nintendo has made a lot of games which have an iconic art style in some games which will attract over just improved graphics. Very few people are playing Halo 1 any more, but a lot more people are playing Super Smash Brothers Melee. We have seen a reemergence of games coming out who opt for an interesting art style to try to succeed.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator
    edited February 2013
    Yep, exactly. A lot of 'retro' gaming, either through actual emulation of old stuff or through a deliberate art style (eg Hotline Miami or Lone Survivor) is highlighting those principles.
    It's the same with movies that feature visual effects. Movies that try to make something 'real' will date very, very quickly - see every sci-fi/fantasy movie from the 1990s. Whereas movies that are showing something more abstract to begin with can stand the test of time more easily - hence TRON can still be an interesting movie despite having archaic tech, because the visuals it creates are quite unique. Same with Wizard of Oz.
    I think with games we've probably reached a point with 'realistic' graphics where they won't date quite so badly in the coming decades. But the previous 20 years of 3D graphics can be a pretty painful one to look back on from an artistic point of view.
    @Aculag - first time you play Proteus, make sure you set aside 45 minutes to play it all the way through.
  • I was a big fan of Okami and No more heroes and madworld. Those 3 games had a very original art style

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